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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yesterday we had a buick meet at the local track and I ran the GN. It was around 96* and well over 70-80% humidity,(track temp was 140 during these runs) so it was definitely not a great day for racing. I should be happy as my two best passes were: (25 psi lifting partially on both passes in 3rd gear as boost spiked for a second after the 3rd shift)
60: 1.75 (7 psi launch)
330:4.836
1/8: 7.45
mph:94.22
1/4: 11.642
mph:116.5

60: 1.71 (10 psi launch)
330:4.799
1/8: 7.428
mph:93.95
1/4:11.61
mph: 116.21
but the car will not 60 ft. Im on 28x9 hoosiers and was hooking up fine. My ?s are regarding the turbo and stall. Its a 3200 stall 10.5" protorque unit, but i don't see 3200 until 6-7 psi and see 3450-3500 at 10 psi. It builds boost and seems to spool up fine at the line and its instant on the street. My 44 has an .85 exhaust housing. I really wanted to upgrade turbos soon but am worried that if i can't 60 with a 44 and a large stall how can i 60 with a PT61. Could the car be too rich in 1st gear? I mean all the ingrediants for a great 60 ft are there... it spools at the line fine(makes me think its not fuel), it dead hooks on the slicks and it has a large stall/small turbo setup :dunno: . I do have 3.23s now but the car had the same problem before the 3.23s as well and i think a 10 psi launch should be enough. Could the stator not be as high a torque multiplier as compared to my old 9/11? my laptop crashed so i borrowed a friends on these runs so if i get them ill post them up. :cheers:
 

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what gears are in the car now? 3.23's or.3.23's? :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
3.23s.... but it had the same problem on the old 3.42s
 

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Take off the front sway bar,its easy and its free!!! And you can put it back on anytime.My car has gone 1.58 with a 4lb launch. My car has stock '87 shocks :eek!: ,UMI upper and lowers non adj.,eibach lowering springs and the front sway bar removed.Also have the big ATR bar out back. The Bilsteins may also be hurting the 60ft.Try some drag shocks.I would have to believe the 3.42's would also help.3.23's with a 28 inch tall tire is asking a bit much for a good 60ft I think.I also run 28x9's on my car.Depends on what you want to do?Have it set up to drag race or handle decent.I dont hit corners hard in my car so I dont care about the bar being off. Believe it or not my car with the lowering springs and front sway bar removed dont handle all that bad.I think you could fix the 60ft problem with suspension mods,because with the et its running I dont think you have motor or trans problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
well the problem with suspecting suspension is that the car dead hooks and transfers weight really hard. I do not have a spinning problem at all. :dunno: I dont' believe there is a motor problem, but im not sure this stall is all it should be. I have had this problem since i replaced my 9/11 3200 stall with this unit but figured it was track prep or tuning etc... but i have tried a lot of different techniques and setups to no avail. I used to be able to launch at 6-7 psi and pull low 1.60s and now a 10 psi launch only nets a low 1.7 :( I wish it was suspension though :yup:
 

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Try upping the tire pressure just a little, ie enough to get just a tad of spin. You might be hooking, but right on the edge of it bogging.
 

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converter appears to be working just as it should. Should not need that much stall with a 44, but, the .85 housing just might. Maybe TurboDave, or Orlando can comment on what stall they ran with similar.

Beyond a bit more pressure as Bruce suggested, you might look at your chip parameters to see what is going on there. I am not familar with the TT's. Is there some form of launch adjustment to improve spool?

Your short times are not far off what I would expect, but, as you did better before...I wonder what the torque multiplication is in the current unit versus the 911? I bet no one can tell you. there is more to converter technology than simply stall speed. :dunno:
 

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If your dead hooking with 10lbs of boost and cutting 1.7's I would say your not making power. Your low mph's also prove that. You should be above 120 mph with 28's and 3.23. Either the motor is tired or you have tuning issues
 

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I would go with a bigger turbo and a brake. Sure it might spool a little slower, but at boost on the brake = hold on!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
ULYCYC said:
If your dead hooking with 10lbs of boost and cutting 1.7's I would say your not making power. Your low mph's also prove that. You should be above 120 mph with 28's and 3.23. Either the motor is tired or you have tuning issues

not to disagree i think there may be a lack of power down low although it doesn't feel that way, 94.2 and 116.5 is hardly a lack of mph consider an unlocked TC and 96* 80% humidity and 140 track temps.... its only a TE44

Also not making excuses but both runs there i saw the boost spike to 28 right after the 2-3 shift and i let out and the TPS through 3rd gear was mostly around 3.2 or so trying to keep the boost down to 25 psi or so and watching the knock gauge. With a full WOT it would have been higher
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Pimp_Red said:
I would go with a bigger turbo and a brake. Sure it might spool a little slower, but at boost on the brake = hold on!!
i do plan on going with a bigger turbo but not until i can get this 60 down... it used to be a solid low 1.60 car with quite a few 1.58s. A brake would be nice but probably not in the budget for while, sure does look fun when i see guys launching off a Tbrake :headbang:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Doc1of7 said:
Try upping the tire pressure just a little, ie enough to get just a tad of spin. You might be hooking, but right on the edge of it bogging.
Doc i may try this next time, i was running 14 psi in both slicks. It didn't feel like a bog, the tires would rip the pavement right at launch (grabbing sound from vht, not spin) and then it was through the gears. But its worth a try :cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Steve Wood said:
converter appears to be working just as it should. Should not need that much stall with a 44, but, the .85 housing just might. Maybe TurboDave, or Orlando can comment on what stall they ran with similar.

Beyond a bit more pressure as Bruce suggested, you might look at your chip parameters to see what is going on there. I am not familar with the TT's. Is there some form of launch adjustment to improve spool?

Your short times are not far off what I would expect, but, as you did better before...I wonder what the torque multiplication is in the current unit versus the 911? I bet no one can tell you. there is more to converter technology than simply stall speed. :dunno:
Steve i didn't even see you replied, i will be getting a specific race version of my current chip from TT soon with WOT TC l/u, and as i understand it he has adjustable WOT fueling for 1st gear alone in the newer versions where as my current chip WOT fueling affects all gears. I may send him a file and see if he can see anything but my old computer with all my old run files has crashed and they are lost :rolleyes: I will try and find out what the torque multiplication is on this converter. I remember being told it was better than the 9/11 TCS converter but that really doesn't tell me much. Thanks for all the replies guys
 

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JDSfastGN said:
not to disagree i think there may be a lack of power down low although it doesn't feel that way, 94.2 and 116.5 is hardly a lack of mph consider an unlocked TC and 96* 80% humidity and 140 track temps.... its only a TE44

Also not making excuses but both runs there i saw the boost spike to 28 right after the 2-3 shift and i let out and the TPS through 3rd gear was mostly around 3.2 or so trying to keep the boost down to 25 psi or so and watching the knock gauge. With a full WOT it would have been higher
Your MPH is off. You may think it's good but's it off. Your ET should have a matching MPH. If the heat, track and the moon would effect your ET also if it was the problem. Also with the tall tires and 3.23 rear it should have ever more MPH. I ran a stock turbo and motor to 12.0 @ 116mph years ago under hot humid conditions. I mentioned MPH because it would show issues easier then trying to figure out ET. What timing are you running?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
ULYCYC said:
Your MPH is off. You may think it's good but's it off. Your ET should have a matching MPH. If the heat, track and the moon would effect your ET also if it was the problem. Also with the tall tires and 3.23 rear it should have ever more MPH. I ran a stock turbo and motor to 12.0 @ 116mph years ago under hot humid conditions. I mentioned MPH because it would show issues easier then trying to figure out ET. What timing are you running?
23* in 1st and 2nd and 21 in 3rd. Im not calling you out on the 12.0 at 116 but talking about matching ETs and mphs etc... honestly 11.60 at 116 is closer than 12.0 and 116? I just don't see the car being down on mph gearing or not, denisity was 2400+ most of the day and i know corrections are useless on turbo cars but it does correct to 11.29 at 119.9 or so. I think mine may be down about 1 mph but as stated earlier the boost spiked and i was 1/2 to 3/4 throttle in 3rd gear which probably acounts for it. The car weighed 3740 last night as well. Quite a few people were down on mph yesterday and by quite a bit.... Ed should i try and run more timing and less boost? The car doesn't pick up if i turn the boost up to 26-27 as i believe a 44 is way out of its efficiency range with ported heads and a cam. Anyways hope i don't come off wrong as i know you are trying to help but i just don't see many 44 heads/cam cars going quicker than 118 and definitely not on a extremly hot day like yesterday.
 

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I would say more timing. If your running 114-116 oct bring the timing up to 26-27*. Lower the boost to 24 and work your way up again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
ULYCYC said:
I would say more timing. If your running 114-116 oct bring the timing up to 26-27*. Lower the boost to 24 and work your way up again.

this is all on alky and 93, i may add a bit of racegas and see what it likes timing wise. Thanks Ed, i will try it.
 

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JDSfastGN said:
this is all on alky and 93, i may add a bit of racegas and see what it likes timing wise. Thanks Ed, i will try it.
Not to fight with the Alky gods but you won't make as much power on Alky as racegas. I bet on C16, 27* timing and 26lbs of boost you will hit 120 mph and also solve your 60ft issue
 

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ULYCYC said:
Not to fight with the Alky gods but you won't make as much power on Alky as racegas.
If the limit is knock then either are equally good answers, according to the NACA papers, Obert, Ricardo, Glass, etc., etc..

Do you have a link showing where racegas, offers something more then a higher resistance to detonation?. Which alky does just as well (when properly done).
 

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Doc1of7 said:
If the limit is knock then either are equally good answers, according to the NACA papers, Obert, Ricardo, Glass, etc., etc..

Do you have a link showing where racegas, offers something more then a higher resistance to detonation?. Which alky does just as well (when properly done).
I don't think they had in mind the way we use (spray) alky. As the only fuel I totally agree with you. Also the transition from 10lbs of boost lets say 12lbs the alky come on during the launch. This unstable blend will not be as effective as pure racegas or pure alky. If you had the alky turned on at 20lbs or a sec or two after the lauch then maybe it won't efffect as much
 
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