Turbo Buick Forums banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,705 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know I know racing and cheap don't go together :crazy: I hurt my motor at the track on Friday. Think it spun a bearing. I haven't looked at it yet. Ok my question is this. I bought a 4.1 (291 casting) long block last winter. It has a turbo crank, rods and 8445 heads. I'm also looking at buying another 3.8. Which would be cheaper and more reliable to make go 10's?

I really wanted to build the 4.1 and replace the stock motor and trans before I hurt it but I guess it's to late now :( :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,705 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Any thoughts? Anyone go 10's with a production 4.1? I know I can get good piece's for the 3.8 to do it. Either one will be billet mains/girdle :yup:
 

·
Resident Slut
Joined
·
5,477 Posts
You already have the 4.1..way buy another block :dunno: You will need oil pan, front cover to fit, then swap over the other parts from your 3.8 ... Now you have a spare block again :yup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,705 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Nothings started yet. I'm just trying to find out if it's the right move or not. I know the 3.8 can make the power and handle it. Can the 4.1 do the same. I havn't heard of anyone going 10's with one. They all go stage block. There must be a reason for this :dunno:
 

·
Resident Idiot
Joined
·
11,462 Posts
The cost would be comparable, especially if you had to buy new pistons for the 3.8 . Have you seen this?
Build A Budget 4.1 Motor!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,705 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Orlando_87GN said:
The cost would be comparable, especially if you had to buy new pistons for the 3.8 . Have you seen this?
Build A Budget 4.1 Motor!
LOL yeah your the one that got me started in this :D Can the block make big power and stay together? Thats the big question. I know the pistons will cost being custom :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,284 Posts
Why not do a 4.1 with a billet stroker crank?
 

·
Resident Idiot
Joined
·
11,462 Posts
The pistons are not custom, they are available from Summit in stock and cheap. Can it hold together? How much power do you _really_ want to make? It's the same as a 3.8 block, they are both production pieces that happen to be strong enough for most of us. I have seen a few production 4.1's make over 600 crank horsepower, including one of mine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,098 Posts
I believe for the power you want, the 3.8 block is not really reliable until you put a girdle on it. And the same girdle will fit the 4.1. The 4.1 has the extra cubes, it will breath a little better because of the bigger cylinders, and you already have the engine. Seems like the way to go, to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,887 Posts
Ormand said:
And the same girdle will fit the 4.1. The 4.1 has the extra cubes, it will breath a little better because of the bigger cylinders, and you already have the engine.
It's a different girdle for the 4.1, there are less pan bolts on the 4.1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,705 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yeah 3.8 uses 20 bolts and 4.1 uses 14.

Thanks guys thats all I'm trying to find out is if they can hold together under power. I want to go high 10's so I need a good 600 HP at the crank. I'm not comfortable trying to make 100 HP per cylinder with hyper pistons. I want to build this once and keep it together. I already bought some billet caps so now I need a girdle
 

·
Resident Idiot
Joined
·
11,462 Posts
I'm not comfortable trying to make 100 HP per cylinder with hyper pistons.
Why not? There are far more people actually proving they work more than the people that have never tried and saying you can't. Both of my 4.1's have the .040 over FM Hypers in them and I wouldn't think twice about running 10's (already have).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
I know nobody here wants to hear this & I will get flamed, but if you want constant 10's a local guy runs a 502 in a regal that clicks off consistant mid 10's at track & it is a street car.
Going the route with a turbo motor will eventually cost you as much or more.
Though driving a 502 on the street will cost a lot. the tb will get ok milage.

I know 3 guys doing TB motor rebuilds & it is costing them a small fortune.

At some point I don't see why people don't buy a race car for track & keep a nice street car for street.
Just my 2 cents.
 

·
Resident Idiot
Joined
·
11,462 Posts
You can buy a motorcycle to run 10's too, which doesn't appeal to me, just like a 502 regal.
 

·
Someone Crown My Ass!
Joined
·
7,081 Posts
Those Hypers will take you probably further than your safety equipment :yup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,098 Posts
It's a different girdle for the 4.1, there are less pan bolts on the 4.1.
I didn't mean that the girdles were identical. I meant that to go to 600 horsepower, you would need a girdle, either way. And RJC charges the same $$ for either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,705 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
SDsr, yeah all my chevy buddies say the same thing. The fun is beating the v8's with 2 less cylinders :yup:

Mike, what car have you gone 10's in? The RX? I was sold on your set up but then got cold feet when talking to others about it. They think it crazy to make that much cylinder pressure with a hyper. What turbo are you running? The 70?

I'm in know hurryb to build this new motor. I want to do it right with nice parts. I'll be doing alot of research on it.

Thanks
Mike
 

·
Someone Crown My Ass!
Joined
·
7,081 Posts
These guys you speak about... they running Hypers?


Visit Banning in the MAGNA section. I wish I was good with numbers and years here but don't believe he has changed to a new set of Hypers since I put that motor together in around 1996 or 1997 (correct me if I am wrong Banning). I can almost guarantee he can fill a shoe box up with time-slips with runs from 11's down to mid 10's. Just remember stock pistons are cast when figuring in cylinder pressure.


My old motor I took out of my T last year you should see some videos and dynos of this weekend if Pacmen from Texas gets them up. Hypers! Judge for yourself off the Real World footage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,098 Posts
Hypereutectic pistons are just like any other part. You generally get what you pay for. It's possible to get cheap hypers, and have them not work out well. The same is true with forged. And even with good pistons, if the engine builder is not good, the results are not likely to be good. For some reason, the folks who had problems make a lot more noise than those who did everything right, so they are the ones that you hear most.
 

·
Resident Idiot
Joined
·
11,462 Posts
Mike, what car have you gone 10's in? The RX? I was sold on your set up but then got cold feet when talking to others about it. They think it crazy to make that much cylinder pressure with a hyper. What turbo are you running? The 70?
The Mazda ran 10's with a TE-52 turbo, nothing fancy. The GN has run 11.40 with a TA-49 turbo. I have yet to post any new numbers with the 70 turbo as I am still getting the converter/spool up worked out.

I can't speak for other brands of Hypers. I can tell you that the 4.1 Federal Mogul hypers are a super nice piston for the 4.1 motor. There are plenty of us using them making some decent power. The exact horsepower the pistons will support are unknown (just like any other car part) but we have proved them to at least 650 crank horsepower, conservatively as I know others making more power than myself. Usually the people that want to talk you out of them have never even tried them, or knew someone that had a completely different brand in a completely different car fail on them.

Whichever piston you decide on will require the same amount of common sense. If you buy forged it doesn't mean you can run 30psi of boost on pump gas whereas you couldn't have done that with the hypers.

Crazy for using a hyper piston with 'that much cylinder pressure'? Have you looked a cheesy 20 year stock piston lately? It obviously doesn't require a set of $700 pistons to get the job done.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top