[CallMeMud]

I had an ATR fan in my old GN that burnt in the fire that seemed like it put out more CFM than the stocker. It was a little louder when running but had a nice rubber seal on the shroud that set flush against the radiator and I believe it was a Black Magic unit converted with wiring. What CFM does the Ramcharger's dual or Spal unit put out? I want to put the A/C back on after I get what I feel is the best possible time without destroying everything yup Gotta prep for the cool-air headbang

 

[stevemon]

Don't know the cfms but the mid 80s Olds Deisel Cutlesses had a fan that outflows any that Spal make and it will bolt right in to a GN shroud. In fact, I have one here waiting to go in. AC Delco PN 22035570. I would have installed it by now except that when a friend added his he says his 140 amp alternator won't keep up anymore and he's having to get a 200 amp model. I'll have to wait a while I guess. Also besides the alternator, he said he upgraded the wiring to 8 gauge. eek!

<small>[ August 16, 2003, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: stevemon ]</small>

 

[CallMeMud]

Looking at the specs on the 15" Black Magic fan it puts out 2,800 CFM. The stocker is probably about 2,500 or so CFM. What size and CFM are the Ramchargers fans? Are they in business still? In the Summit book they list a 14" single Perma-Cool fan that puts out 2,950 CFM. If you could mount two you have close to 6,000 CFM eek! eek! eek! Would just take a little wiring. $168.00 for a pair.

 

[TurboDave]

stevemon:
Don't know the cfms but the mid 80s Olds Deisel Cutlesses had a fan that outflows any that Spal make and it will bolt right in to a GN shroud. In fact, I have one here waiting to go in. AC Delco PN 22035570. I would have installed it by now except that when a friend added his he says his 140 amp alternator won't keep up anymore and he's having to get a 200 amp model. I'll have to wait a while I guess. Also besides the alternator, he said he upgraded the wiring to 8 gauge. eek!

I put in a 200 amp alternator just cuz my old on went belly up. But I found out what really needs to be done to allow a 120amp to keep up with the demands of dual fans and other "things".
I had a new charge wire made for me by Casper's. They made me a 4ga charge wire. It's easy because I have their + cable relocation kit (which also means the charge wire isn't a part of the + battery cable. It bolts to the same stud on the relocator). So it was an easy install.
I'm not saying this completely cured the voltage issue (because with a borrowed 120a, and "everyting" running the voltage still dropped to 12.8-13.0), but it was at least able to kinda keep up. Now with the new 200a in place the voltage never drops below 13.6. That's in cabin voltage, as measured by scanmaster. I'm quite sure that under hood voltages are significantly higher, since there's much less voltage drop.

 

[norbs]

The Ramchargers fan set up is the best deal for the buck, However i plan not to use it since it is only rated at 2350 cfm, and there is amp draw rating on it. I have ordered dual 13"derale fans rated at 4000 cfm @50 amp draw. I plan to wire the fans in series for 6 volt operation on low and in parallel on high when the a/c is on, for the full 50 amp draw. I plan to change the pulley on the alternator to compensate. I will let you know how it goes as soon as the fans arrive. The factory fan draws about 15 amps, and i have the upgraded motor from the olds diesel and it draws about 22 amps now, and is still not enough cooling for my a/c to work in traffic with 134a.

 

[CallMeMud]

Norbs,


Take a look at these: http://www.perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page16.html


Two of these: 19114 14" High Performance Electric Fan should get the job done with less than 20 Amp draw. Close to three times the CFM of a single fan at 6,000 CFM for the pair.

<small>[ August 17, 2003, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: CallMeMud ]</small>

 

[Steve Wood]

dual 13s gonna fit? My dual 11 Spals don't leave much uncovered.

 

[CallMeMud]

So if the Ramchargers duals are only rated at 2,350 CFM I would think the gain people are seeing with them is related to the shroud covering the entire backside of the radiator and maybe having two fans spans the entire width to cool it better. In actuality they don't flow more than a stocker, just used better.
What would happen if you hot-wired the fan in some fashion right off the back of the alternator so it sees may voltage? Or a voltage booster in-line? Wonder how much air loss you would see using the style fans I posted in my last post since they don't really have a shroud?

 

[CallMeMud]

Steve,

I think your Spals are that way because of the shroud and that is the reason I like the unshrouded versions if they still flow the air stated. The specs I saw on a stock GN radiator is 27" width between tanks so the 13" duals on paper will work. I have a Be-Cool radiator which I think measures a little wider between tanks so I was hoping to fit 14's and stagger one top left, one bottom right. I need to measure my radiator and see what I have. Be back in a little.

 

[Steve Wood]

One has to be careful when comparing specs as the manufacturers seldom specify the inches of water the measurement was taken at.

 

[Quick Toy]

Word of warning...Don't get sucked into the "Advertised CFM" rating. Many are inflated and tested under different conditions. A safe bet is to go by the amp rating, usually around 1 amp per 100 cfm. Derale, Spal, and the Ramchargers setups have proved to be able to do the job, but as stevemon say, don't overlook some of the factory setups. The Lincoln Mark VIII fan flows close to 5000 CFM! and the 3.8L Ford Taurus fan flows a little over 3000 CFM. I'm not sure how much shroud modification is needed for your cars to fit. I have a hybrid with a tiny rad and I'm using the 2 speed Taurus fan and love it.

Paul
1972 Toyota Celica with an 87 GN drive train.

 

[norbs]

I would say the flexalite fans and perma-cool are overated. Also you have to figure you are drawing through alot of rad, causing a pressue drop of about.6 hg, with a front mount a/c etc. SO the fan will be loaded down alot

<small>[ August 17, 2003, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: norbs ]</small>

 

[Louie L]

The black majic fan will not flow that much. The mustang guys had this dicussion eons ago because at that time it was all that was available. The cfm # for that fan was allegedly taken when the fan was unloaded, which to me means with nothing in front of it.

The Spal fan #s were taken loaded. There was lots of info on this before the big crash of the other board.

The best bets right now are the Spal fans and the Rancharger fans. The spals install cleaner. I have "Hotwired" my Spals to run off the Alt through dedicated big gauge wiring and relays. They are getting a constant 13.5v to 14v and kick ass.

<small>[ August 17, 2003, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Louie L ]</small>

 

[CallMeMud]

That sucks that all the info got lost! I just measured the Be-Cool and it is 27 3/8" between tanks. It may be possible to stagger the 14's and get them to fit but who knows. Gotta think a little about this.

 

[Supersix]

How many amps does the Ramchargers setup draw?

<small>[ August 17, 2003, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Supersix ]</small>

 

[Steve Wood]

I would not get too hung up on the amp pull as cheaper units may use less efficient motors and pull more amps. Then the blade design plus the media in front of the fan will affect current draw as stated above in various posts.

The Spals seem to be close to the top of the heap from all the info posted over the last couple of the years. The Ramchargers appear to do a very good job for a lot less money.

With any of the fans, Louie's comments about supplying sufficient voltage make a difference-including the stock fan.

 

[onefastjackass]

CallMeMud:
So if the Ramchargers duals are only rated at 2,350 CFM I would think the gain people are seeing with them is related to the shroud covering the entire backside of the radiator and maybe having two fans spans the entire width to cool it better. In actuality they don't flow more than a stocker, just used better.

You got it my duel ramcharger fan setup cools better then my 2800 cfm that it replaced.Why because the coverage area is better.
My car runs almost 20 degrees cooler then with the other fan that flows better.

It's almost like a radiator.Which would you rather have one that flows more or one that has more cooling area.

After It flows a certain amount I would pick the area every time.

 

[Supersix]

Steve Wood:
I would not get too hung up on the amp pull as cheaper units may use less efficient motors and pull more amps. Then the blade design plus the media in front of the fan will affect current draw as stated above in various posts.

The Spals seem to be close to the top of the heap from all the info posted over the last couple of the years. The Ramchargers appear to do a very good job for a lot less money.

With any of the fans, Louie's comments about supplying sufficient voltage make a difference-including the stock fan.

The reason I ask is that I need to know what amerage relay I need so I can "hotwire" the fan..

Mark S.

<small>[ August 17, 2003, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: Supersix ]</small>

 

[nova II]

anyone try the new 16 volt batteries,i dont think you cant use them for ignition,but water pumps and fansor maybe fuel pumps?

 

[Steve Wood]

Although I have seen them connected with 30 amp relays, I would use a 40 amp relay as the start up current draw is higher than the normal running current pull. A 40 amp unit may last longer, IMO.


Most just use the stock relay set up.

On my Spal's I use a stock relay for each fan.

I have seen a dual fan blow a 30 amp fuse when trying to start both fans at the same time--blackmagic fans on a strip vette. I simply drove each one off a separate relay to fix that.