[CallMeMud]

If you read my earlier post on this I either lifted a head or possibly blew an steel shim gasket or the ARP studs just plain loosened up. Most I checked were at least 10 ft.lbs. low from the original 85 ft.lbs. I set them at when I put the motor together. Some including Jason Cramer were able to retorque and cure the escape of the gases going into the cooling system and overflow. So far I pulled them all back to 85 ft.lbs. I know Red's said he went to 125 ft.lbs. on his to get them holding good. Got me thinking dunno Should I just leave them be and try again, go up to 90 ft.lbs. or go even more like 110 ft.lbs. eek! Hoping this will fix my leaking problem and maybe get me by without a retorque for a while yup

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

chicken

how tight has Jason gone with his?

from what I understand the alum heads dont have as bad of a problem as Iron heads

mine will be going back to 125# and I've been tempted to try and tap the block for 1/2" studs but to do so I'll have to drill the bolt holes bigger thru the heads too

but now that I'm basically detuning I'll just go back with the really tight 7/16 studs

you running stacked steels or just one?

I had more problems with stacked than with one they leaked so bad between cylinders I could blow one cylinder up and feel it blowing out the plug hole of the next cylinder and it was with rockers backed off so it wont going in theintake to get there

<small>[ August 09, 2003, 05:04 AM: Message edited by: REDS HOT AIR ]</small>

 

[86gnoddfire]

has anybody checked there deck for flatness after running 125# . i used to run a 406 chevy and i over torqued the heads 20# for nos and when i took it apart all the bolt holes were pulled up and needed to be re decked.they were all about .005 high so i went back to 10# over recomended torque. thanks

 

[CallMeMud]

Jason said he uses 85 ft.lbs. on all even when he retorques. He is running doubles with GN-1's and I have singles with irons. I just want to make sure I am not hurting the integrity of the studs or block with the extra torque. The extra torque theory sounds neat but may not actually be doing as much good as we think. Like was said here I was thinking something in the range of 10 ft.lbs. more just in case as much as it should be 85 ft.lbs. when done it may be off a smidge.

 

[CallMeMud]

By all means....chime in.

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

I'm not telling anyone to do it just saying I've been that tight and it worked

evertime I go in my motor for anything
I check my head and deck surface and dont have no puckered holes

as far as the retorque helping ..I have had them lift so bad sounded like I was popping pop corn under the hood and I tightened them up and kept on going

to be perfectly honest buick sucks to go fast with ...I think for now on if I want to go faster than 11.0 in a full weight car It will have a sb chebby in it wink

that would be why I'm detuning and going in my elcamino with it for a drive everyday and still perform well which is what it was designed for

Since money and time are not on my side right now my girdled 3.8 out of my ttype is getting fresh bearings and going in the el. till I can get a 4.1 built then at that time I'll either sell the 3.8 motor or put it back in the ttype with a 88 or so turbo and just go blow the heads thru the hood for fun and throw it in the trash when It explodes uzi powersix

 

[CallMeMud]

I think the reason they saw the threads come to the surface on the Chevy was because the threads come to the very top of the deck. On our motors it is down deeper in the block where you would need to basically pull them all the way out to see anything on the surface. When you lifted them did you get any bubbles or increased coolant in your overflow? I may not have been as lucky as you! What about when you blew one? What were the symptoms that is was finally gone? Busier than a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest right now but hope to have it going again by next weekend to see if the retorque cured it. If not, out comes the motor

 

[CallMeMud]

Red's,

Did you smoke a gasket? At what point do you not need to retorque or is it run 30 minutes and tear it apart for a retorque? This is the stuff that seems to get left out in the details. If I would have known they required so much effort I probably would have went another route. No mention is ever made to the negative aspects. So far I am sitting on the fence if these are worth having in a motor or not. Maybe those guys are on to something with the Viton coated Cometic spring steel gaskets.

 

[CallMeMud]

For the guys retorquing in the car:

Did you grind your headers down so you can get on all the studs without removing the headers? I may take the extra time to clearance them since it looks like I may be doing it often eek! yup

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

I blew one so far ...looked like a smoke stack coming up my valve cover breather from the blowby


once they are tight enough they are tight enough no need to keep doing them unless you run 87 octane on a race chip and 25# of boost ..then you asking for it ..lol

 

[nova II]

I have a question about the gasket failure. Does the head lift and cause leakage? Or is the tuning wrong-detonation? Is the gasket failure a wearable item in a 10s performance level 3.8? I understand the 8 bolt pattern problem. Just want a rough idea of normal life expectancy. powersix

 

[CallMeMud]

I just checked the torque on the passenger side. Every stud there clicked the torque-wrench at 85 ft. lbs. No movement at all.
The driver's side was a different story as most all of them were loose and especially the center two dunno
So based off this I hopefully hurt only the driver's side and a retorque will fix it. I am hoping it was just a chunk of 1200 that blew out and now that I clamped it back down the gasket is still intact eek! Fingers are crossed help

 

[Steve Wood]

If the threads hold, I am very surprised that the block deck is not distorted at such high torques. (125 ft-lbs)

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

I'm surpized the crank aint broke at such high torque levels too yup

 

[Steve Wood]

Only a matter of time!

I bet such high torque levels do affect the crank centerlines, tho.

<small>[ August 17, 2003, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Steve Wood ]</small>

 

[CallMeMud]

It's alive!! headbang Just finished off putting it all back together and filling with oil and water. The little stumble I had when things were bad at an idle is gone. So far no bubbles in the overflow and I have 70-75 PSI oil pressure after starting it. I just torqued them all back to 85 Ft.Lbs., no 125 for me wink I have to let it cool for a little bit so I can go back out and address a little exhaust leak. I guess that blob of 1200 on the pickup was making it hard to suck poon Glad I limped it back ASAP and tore it down to find as much as I did. Fingers are still crossed but it is looking pretty good usa

 

[Steve Wood]

Off to a good start!

 

[CallMeMud]

If it had been a graphite or composite gasket I guess I would have been replacing them. Not saying I am out of the woods yet but it looks pretty decent so far. After a bit I will probably feel good about it and may change my opinions of the steel shims gaskets.

 

[CallMeMud]

Went out beating around and the motor itself runs good. I did get coolant pushed into the overflow again dunno I think I have a couple of things here that may be going against me. On Be-Cool's site it says the radiator comes with a 13 lb. cap. The previous owner must have switched mine because it is a 16 lb. cap now. When I first started out today my temperature went to 212 degrees. It appeared to me the thermostat wasn't opening so I shut the car off. Started it up a bit later and it dropped down to 160 or so. Running down the road I was about mid 170's. Beat on it a little and the temperature went 190 and fluctuated back and forth from 170-190 pretty fast. A short time later the hose going to the thermostat housing was rock hard. Went to remove the cap and the pressure was pretty extreme as it spewed out. After it was done the level was low. Topped it off and made my way back home. My temperature the whole trip was 157-165 degrees dunno Leave it running, pop the hood and the level in the overflow is normal, the car is sitting right on the thermostat at 160 degrees with the fans going. Shut it off, thermostat hose was hard, pulled the radiator cap and it had a bunch of pressure and about a quart of water come out but the level in the radiator looked good dunno Cap, thermostat or maybe the head gasket is still leaking?? dunno I think I will put some seal tabs in and see what I get.

 

[Steve Wood]

J, if those bolts were that loose, I suspect the gasket is either burned from the combustion chamber blast, blown, or the silicone burned away at a minimum.

If not, then I would start thinking about a crack in the head casting.

I am really cynical about retorquing after a head lifts...and I am more suspicious of a shim needing retorquing. Wonder if those magic studs were a bit stretchable?

I don't believe it is the shims that compressed and made the bolts/studs loose.

Time to pull that head and have a look, imo. frown