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Turbocharged BrunoStachel
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I borrowed this off of another site because I found it interesting as it relates to a few threads that have been posted here in the last couple of months.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/jun2006/bw20060608_466074.htm

Some of you may have read about the accident awhile back. The story pretty much tells how it happened. Now I've done a few of these open track events or PCDE's as they are refered to and I've never really given the track safety issue a second thought. Hey, as long as there was an ambulance and plenty of workers manning the track than it was safe IMO. Reading through some of the issues of this particular track on that particular day kind of shed some new light on that subject. And manufacturers are sued every day for some things less trivial besides a wicked power to weight ratio so that didn't surprise me.

Read through this article and pay close attention to the comments about the waivor you sign when ever you go through the gates of the track. I wonder how many track operators there are that dont have a clue on how safe or unsafe their tracks really are. :crazy:
 

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I want a Z06
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I think what you mean is HPDE = High Performance Driving Events.

Every event I have run at has a Mandatory Drivers meeting in the Morning where they discuss pit out strategy, Flags, Corner stations, etc. During the Sessions cars come in and out of the pits and its up the driver of the car coming out to stay off-line and be aware of approaching traffic. Who knows why the Ferrari guy waiting and didn't get up to speed or didn't even look (Probably cause he was driving a Ferrari)

The Porsche/Ferrari event is a sad and a hard lesson that this is a really dangerous sport and there are always a few deaths every year.

The Lawsuits are rediculous of course but this is America and you can waste you're money ****ing it up for other people if thats what you want to do. Everyone who has done one these events knows that you risk you're life everytime you go out there. This wasn't the tracks fault, it probably wasn't anyones fault. It was an accident and **** happens.

The amount of stock factory cars out there is about zilch, the courts and lawyers don't know anything but common sense tells you that once you modify a car you change the way it was delivered from the factory and hence they are off the hook. They should be off the hook regardless for you taking a production street car onto a racetrack. The reason they tell you not to do this is for this exact reason. Getting Sued.

Clubs run events different ways, typically the track supplies the corner workers and EMT but the club decides who goes out, how many cars, for how long etc etc.

The lawsuit is stupid and a waste of time. You sign the wavier, you know whats at risk and if you **** up sometimes you don't walk away. If you can't deal with that then take up golf.

WHen I go through the gate I know a few things I understand regardless of the waiver.

1. I am responsible for my car. It goes in a wall or rolls, I cry and put it on the trailer and bring it home and pay to fix it. It is not the tracks fault if someone is leaking oil, water, or whatever. Insurance doesn't cover this and trying to get them to pay for it is a good way to end up in Jail for fraud.

2. If I get hurt my insurance company is paying my medical bills, not the track, not the club, not the car that spun out in front of me that I T-boned.

The clubs I run with do not allow you to take passengers unless that person is an Instructor. Then Only Instructors are allowed to take Non-Instructors for rides.
 

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I want a Z06
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Getting back to point number 1 and 2. I am going to be selling my Cobra soon so I can step into a dedicated Racecar with full saftey gear just because of these reasons. I have gotten serious enough about I want a dedicated track car, even now I could care less about driving my Cobra on the street anymore. I fear my insurance company will tripple my rates if I get caught going 30 in a 20.

Besides, its time to step it up and go really fast without having to make compromises for the street. Full Cage, Fire System, Lexan... And something Light! I'm sick of buying tires and brakes for this heavy thing! :yup:
 

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Rich whiney wife just trying to get richer.
Life ain't *Fair*.
It's greedy mindless folks (like those next of kin) that cause *us* to lose our ability to enjoy racing.
It's sad no one can't sue her, for just being the mindless, greedy rich ----- that she actually is.

It's sad commentary that so many folks are willing just to sue. Obviously, in her case she can't accept the fact that he died doing what he enjoyed doing. He knew what was going on, or was OK with the situation, if not he shouldn't have been in the frickin car. I have as much sympathy for her, as I do Cindy Seehan, and Terry's parents, ie NONE.
 

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Shaker X
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That story has been debated ad nauseum on the So Cal racing boards as to who's fault, what happened, etc...

It is really unfortunate when these things happen and if you are around fast cars long enough...

I took the route that Mike is about to take, and went full safety. Cup car, hans device, new belts EVERY year, and so on. I love driving and racing, but I sure as hell don't want to die doing it. I want to die as an old old man crapping my pants in an old folks home eating oatmeal. :crazy:

This hobby has exploded in the last three years or so and so will the ridiculus lawsuits. We'll see how this plays out, but one of the first questions I got asked when buying life insurance was "Do you race cars?"

Shiny side up boys!
 

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I want a Z06
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So while I slowly do my research into racecars and what to buy whats the breakdown on the Cup cars?

I'm leaning towards a prepped E36 but since I'm not gonna drive it on the street I wonder what else is out there in the silouete of a car that hauls ass and is cheap to maintain? The open wheel stuff looks fun but I don't think its for me, I still want to play with the other cars on the track. :D
 

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Shaker X
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I like the BMW's and you can pick them up cheap and ready to race. They don't break down all that much. What I would NOT do is build a car. Get one that is proven and already sorted out. Take it from me. :rant:

The SCCA magazine has some good deals in the back.

I beat my Vette like a rented mule and that car never let me down. In the future I may go back to the Vettes.
 

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I want a Z06
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I will never build a car, way too expensive and a waste of time.

My 1st choice would be a T1 Prepped Z06 but uhh those are kinda expensive. :D
 

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Shaker X
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Keep your eyes peeled. As classes get changed you can get some 'old' T1 cars for pretty cheap.

I just re read the article and something that comes to my mind after instructing for a few years now, is that most guys that have a car like don't really like to take instruction on how to drive it. It keeps stating that the car is "tail-happy" but was it? I don't know, but I do know that a lot of times when a guy has too much horsepower they tend to use the throttle as an On/Off switch. This would give the impression that the car is tail-happy coming out of a corner, but in reality it is a power induced oversteer.

If a car is loose coming off a corner, it could be any number of things (and none having to do with the suspension). :dunno:

It's pretty sad that they brought the Ferrari owner into the lawsuit. When you are sitting at pit road waiting to get on the track, you rely upon the flagman to send you out onto a clear track. Once he gives you the go ahead, your focus changes to the track looking for cars. You don't have a lot of visibility inside the car with the belts on, helmet, and especially inside a Ferrari to see a flagman once he is at your side.
 

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Turbocharged BrunoStachel
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I guess I was reading between the lines. The purpose of this was to point out these remarks made by the author.

WHAT ABOUT THE RELEASE?

"Legal Files" recently addressed the enforceability of releases given by track participants and concluded that they are generally enforceable if the injuries are sustained by hazards that are contemplated at the time the release is given. This case tests the effect of the release signed by Rudl in two ways. One is that it alleges that the track owner and operators managed it in an unsafe manner and contrary to established safety standards for racetracks. In other words, they didn't have to make it as safe as the street, but they did have to make it safe as racetracks go. The other is that it alleges that numerous pertinent facts were concealed from Rudl, and he therefore did not give an informed consent.

I was thinking about the safety issue that is always brought up with concerns about the G.S.C.A. Nationals. The point being is the the safety standards have already been established by every other track with every other race. It would only take one bone headed accident to shut down that event. If other tracks enforce the roll bar rule than shame on Dallas Jones for not enforcing it there at this event.


McClellan says, "No, Porsche should only be liable because this car was defective." But then he adds, "It is defective, however, if the risks of its design outweigh the benefits. If its power and handling characteristics make it too dangerous for the average driver without training or instruction, then it is defective. Porsche should be liable because it sold a defective vehicle to Ben Keaton."

I was thinking the TR could also be a defective car. Sometimes I think I'm they only person on the face of the earth that can handle one, 100% of the time. :cheers:
 

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Shaker X
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OH! I see where you are going now. :eek: :D

Yeah, you are right, any high performance car regardless of price and power could be liable if this case becomes precident. Then the can of worms becomes exactly what is too much car for any individual?

A Ford Pinto is too much car in the hands of most teenagers. :D
 

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I want a Z06
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Racer X said:
A Ford Pinto is too much car in the hands of most teenagers. :D
More like too much car for the majority of idiots on the road.
 
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