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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been reading the past threads and I have a question concerning the excesive amount of fuel psi I need to run.
If the cam sensor was 180' out would this cause the car to need a lot more fuel psi to maintain minimum knock retard at WOT and also keep good O2 readings?

Fuel psi-60 w/ line off!
Boost 25-26
Scanmaster readings:
O2-.773
KR-1.6

See Sig for more details

Thanks a bunch y'all

Kevin

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87GN, 12.05 @ 111, SIXTY FOOT 1.60-LAUNCH 15#, BOOST 25-26 LBS (YEP OVERKILL FOR COMBO), BONE STOCK LONG BLOCK, STOCK I.C. (BELL MOUTHED), STOCK TRANS/CONV, TE44, 009'S, RED'S 107 CHIP. HOME MADE 3" DOWN PIPE. RUNS CONSISTANT 12.10'S-12.11'S.
http://www.geocities.com/kdslaby/solidworks.html


[This message has been edited by KEVINS (edited March 15, 2001).]
 

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Resident Idiot
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Why not get a hold of a caspers cam sensor tool and find out.

What kind of fuel pump do you have? I highly doubt one stock style fuel pump will deliver enough volume of fuel at 86psi. That's a base setting of 60psi + boost (26psi).

Plus the 009's run a little more rich on idle, then they do at WOT. I can't imagine running the FP at 60psi static. Something sounds way off here.

I suggest checking the cam sensor before damage is done..

Try another fuel pressure gauge.
Try another FPR.
Fuel return line blocked?
Wrong fuel filter?

Let us know what you find out.

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Email Address: mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>


Stock Turbo, Stock Heads, Stock CAM, V4, MSD50's, TH DP, JayJackson 62mm TB, 16position MaxEffort Chip. 3750# with Driver
12.35 & 108.39 Street Trim
11.92 @ 111.77 Race Ready
 

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Kevin,

Having the cam sensor 180 degrees out won't effect your WOT fuel delivery. Having the sensor set incorrectly is most noticible at idle and light throttle. An unstable idle and off idle stumble are the 2 biggest clues.

I agree with Orlando that there is no way that the stock pump or even a XP pump is designed to operate at these fuel pressures.
Most pumps have a pressure relief built in that will open at somewhere around 75 psi.

Red's 107 chip drives the injectors way over 100% so your problem isn't injector D/C. You need to get a fuel press gauge you can read while driving and see what the WOT fuel press is not just the static pressure.

Neal

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'86 T Type 252 cu in Stage II 10.23 @ 134.02
'71 GSX Stage 1
'98 Regal GS
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yea, I’ve done all of those things Orlando even checking the entire fuel line from tank to fuel rail, twice.
I’ve raced the car twice and the first outing I had to plug the fuel return line to the tank in order to eliminate the knock. This gets me approx. 83-84 psi with the XP pump at WOT. The second outing was with the return line open again but the regulator completely bottomed out, again 83-84 psi. I’ve tried two different gauges and they were within 1 pound of each other. If I set the fuel psi at 42-43 static then I get 18.5’ knock with Cam2 purple @ 25psi boost… this is what prompted the whole ordeal of trying to get more fuel pressure…I never did lower the boost because the 107 chip wasn’t made to work below 25 psi and I figured it would cause some fouling.
Red Armstrong even suggested that running that much boost through the stock IC was sorta “super heating” the air and the extra fuel psi was needed to cool things back down again. Although it doesn’t seem to explain the good O2’s… A V4 is planned for the future anyway.
Well, I just thought that I’d run the question by and see if I was on the right track. I’ll check the cam sensor among other things. I’ll get this thing figured out yet!!

Thanks Guys

Kevin


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87GN, 12.05 @ 111, SIXTY FOOT 1.60-LAUNCH 15#, BOOST 25-26 LBS (YEP OVERKILL FOR COMBO), BONE STOCK LONG BLOCK, STOCK I.C. (BELL MOUTHED), STOCK TRANS/CONV, TE44, 009'S, RED'S 107 CHIP. HOME MADE 3" DOWN PIPE. RUNS CONSISTANT 12.10'S-12.11'S.
http://www.geocities.com/kdslaby/solidworks.html


[This message has been edited by KEVINS (edited March 15, 2001).]
 

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Fuhgeddaboudit
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If you are getting these readings with a electric fuelpump gauge try and hookup a mechanical gauge hooked to the fuelrail and taped to your windshield and try a wot blast. Electric fuel gauges are inaccurate. If you are using a mechanical gauge it may be broken. Try another one.

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ED BAKER
new times soon.87-T-TYPE, T49,Bluetops,MM210Roller,JE forged20over,P&P Heads,Manley valves,Hemco 65mm& Acu65TB,V2 FM, P.I.9.5 -7disc,Jimmys Trans, new times soon.
93 PARK AVE"SUPERCHARGED"
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Kevins -

Man something doesn't sound right. You plugged the return line? I believe that would dead lock the fuel pump in the tank. I don't think I would do this.

Before you do anything else, I would suggest getting a Direct Scan so you can see a number of things that could cause all these weird problems you are having. Ya, I know... it's $250 and you need a laptop. It sounds as if you frequent the track anyway, so I would just break down and get one. Borrowing a Tlink from someone may not be the answer either. You need to compare some important readins that Tlink just doesn't show.

I this situation, you would want to know:
Injector PW at WOT
Timing at WOT
MAF at WOT

ect. ect.

Also, are you sure you have 009's? I have been screwed once, and actually recieved a smaller injector than I thought I had. Just because it has a little green stripe on it, don't assume it's the correct injector. Been there/ done that.

Compare the part numbers of all your injectors, and make sure they are the right part number for 42.5 injectors. I don't know that number any longer, but someone can post it here.

You stated having 18* of knock. Are you sure it's not false knock. Ie. your home made DP hitting the frame?

Again, it would be helpful to know when that knock occured, what the PW was at, and how much timing was being commanded at that time. Without DS it's impossible to know.

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Email Address: mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>


Stock Turbo, Stock Heads, Stock CAM, V4, MSD50's, TH DP, JayJackson 62mm TB, 16position MaxEffort Chip. 3750# with Driver
12.35 & 108.39 Street Trim
11.92 @ 111.77 Race Ready
 

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OH, just a thought....

Is your FPR getting vacuum/boost to it?

If it's not, this would explain everything.

Have a mity vac handy? Maybe you should check all vacuum/boost lines coming off the top of the plenum.

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Email Address: mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>


Stock Turbo, Stock Heads, Stock CAM, V4, MSD50's, TH DP, JayJackson 62mm TB, 16position MaxEffort Chip. 3750# with Driver
12.35 & 108.39 Street Trim
11.92 @ 111.77 Race Ready
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The regulator is getting boost and vacume. That’s where I tee my boost guage. I want to see what boost pressure the regulator is seeing and it is steady as a rock, so all readings are from this point. I don’t have a mighty vac but I can see where it’s going to be an addition to the ol’ tool box. The down pipe may be a good place for me to look for false knock but if I remember correctly my O2’s were .620’s on the 18* KR which I would think it was not getting fuel (I don’t have my notes with me while I’m writing this). I checked the part numbers of each injectors when I received them so I know they are all correct.
I only use mechanical pressure gages.

I can’t wait ‘till the snow melts so I can go play with this thing.

Thanks again!

Kevin


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87GN, 12.05 @ 111, SIXTY FOOT 1.60-LAUNCH 15#, BOOST 25-26 LBS (YEP OVERKILL FOR COMBO), BONE STOCK LONG BLOCK, STOCK I.C. (BELL MOUTHED), STOCK TRANS/CONV, TE44, 009'S, RED'S 107 CHIP. HOME MADE 3" DOWN PIPE. RUNS CONSISTANT 12.10'S-12.11'S.
http://www.geocities.com/kdslaby/solidworks.html


[This message has been edited by KEVINS (edited March 15, 2001).]
 

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Hey, what plugs are you using... I had a bad experience with Autolite 23's that I'll post in a separate thread. Basically had major knock, surging and popping.

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Stock Turbo, Stock Heads, Stock CAM, V4, MSD50's, TH DP, JayJackson 62mm TB, 16position MaxEffort Chip. 3750# with Driver
12.35 & 108.39 Street Trim
11.92 @ 111.77 Race Ready
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
PLUGS WERE BRAND NEW AUTOLITE 22'S..

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87GN, 12.05 @ 111, SIXTY FOOT 1.60-LAUNCH 15#, BOOST 25-26 LBS (YEP OVERKILL FOR COMBO), BONE STOCK LONG BLOCK, STOCK I.C. (BELL MOUTHED), STOCK TRANS/CONV, TE44, 009'S, RED'S 107 CHIP. HOME MADE 3" DOWN PIPE. RUNS CONSISTANT 12.10'S-12.11'S.
http://www.geocities.com/kdslaby/solidworks.html


[This message has been edited by KEVINS (edited March 15, 2001).]
 

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Wow.. are those even colder than the Autolite 23's???

What a shot in the dark....

Replace those plugs with some AC R43TS's. Post your results. I think you'll be happy..

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Email Address: mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>


Stock Turbo, Stock Heads, Stock CAM, V4, MSD50's, TH DP, JayJackson 62mm TB, 16position MaxEffort Chip. 3750# with Driver
12.35 & 108.39 Street Trim
11.92 @ 111.77 Race Ready
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yep they are colder. Armstrong said to use 22's for the 107 chip since it requires more boost but at this point I think it could be a good change worth trying.


Racing season is still months away so I won't be able to try anythng at the track. When the weather gets nicer, some "street tuning" can be done quickly. I also just ordered a Jay J. 62mm to help with throttle response/spoolup along with a tool to set the cam sensor. It sounds like the cam sensor has made differences on other cars with high fuel psi but probably not as high as mine..

Thanks Orlando for sticking with this!! I wish I didn't have to wait to get you results!!

Kevin

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87GN, 12.05 @ 111, SIXTY FOOT 1.60-LAUNCH 15#, BOOST 25-26 LBS (YEP OVERKILL FOR COMBO), BONE STOCK LONG BLOCK, STOCK I.C. (BELL MOUTHED), STOCK TRANS/CONV, TE44, 009'S, RED'S 107 CHIP. HOME MADE 3" DOWN PIPE. RUNS CONSISTANT 12.10'S-12.11'S.
http://www.geocities.com/kdslaby/solidworks.html


[This message has been edited by KEVINS (edited March 15, 2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I tried to verify which plugs I had been running with no luck. According to my notes and some scribbles on some paper, I noted that I had AC 22’s in during racing. I called the parts store and as CraigT stated they have no record of these although they do have the 23’s. I went and pulled a plug out but I had the street plugs in. So my notes may be incorrect with this matter since now I have no idea what was in the car..
Plugs were always a “trade secret” running N2O and I can’t believe I screwed this up but I must have..

Sorry for the confusion…

Kevin


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87GN, 12.05 @ 111, SIXTY FOOT 1.60-LAUNCH 15#, BOOST 25-26 LBS (YEP OVERKILL FOR COMBO), BONE STOCK LONG BLOCK, STOCK I.C. (BELL MOUTHED), STOCK TRANS/CONV, TE44, 009'S, RED'S 107 CHIP. HOME MADE 3" DOWN PIPE. RUNS CONSISTANT 12.10'S-12.11'S.
http://www.geocities.com/kdslaby/solidworks.html
 
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