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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For the following advice: Tune your engine for top performance, then add the alchy.

Well first of all I've thrown the High performance boost solenoid away, that thing scares me. Leave the smc off and hit 25 psi without alchy and it's good-bye.

Secondly, I've been trying to tune without enough timing, turning up the boost, then adding alchy to kill the knock. All I was doing was flooding the thing with alchy. And using too low of timing in the process. Even though I was reaching huge psi numbers, I wasn't making any real power. Egt's were going nuts with all the unburnt fuel in the exhaust, even though the 0-2 numbers were ok.

Ok I figured Ed must have learned a thing or two, so today I have worked things to this:

[email protected] 43.5 Hose off

Boost at 15 psi, no knock

Fuel at 10 percent rich at WOT.

Timing 25*

I'm done with the timing, that's far enough.

Now I'm going to add fuel, then boost, fuel, then boost until I get knock.

Then I'll add some alchy...


[This message has been edited by Turbo_Tim (edited June 02, 2002).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Ok, the tuning story continues..


Running Sunoco 94, got 5* knock @19 psi. I'm not going any further with the boost.

25* timing. Staying there.

12 Percent rich on fuel. I can only go to 14 percent, but I think it needs more timing. I'm chicken to do that yet...


OK! Next run the alchy gets turned on...

To be continued..
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Running Sunoco 94 I ended up with:

19 psi, no knock. (at 75 mph)

Egt's 1325* (at 75 mph)

25* timing

Fuel pressure @ 43.5 Hose off

Added 12 percent more fuel!

I'm done tuning for today. We shall see Tuesday at Atco what happens. It's looking good!

BTW adding 100 percent denatured seemed to hurt it. (bogged) I'm thinking I may want to pull out some fuel?

Also I barely have the smc pumping at all. Maybe 20 percent, if that. The 0-2's did look a little fat at one point, like .870 when I normally saw ..850 (at 75mph)

I've reduced the mixture to 75% alchy, since this seems to be what a lot of guys are using.

I'm also thinking about bumping up the timing another 2*...

Any Ideas?
 

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Tim WTF are you doing? You are over the edge my friend.


Steve of Maxeffort fame not the alky. guy recommends lower timing and higher boost. Not that I know much but I use his 20* setting with a lot of fuel and then use the alky. to increase boost beyond the 17 or so I can run with the max. fuel.

At the track, ok with some 100 mix too, I was upping the boost to 24 psi. and no KR. I couldn't get any more boost out of it so I started cranking the timing on the translator at WOT up 2* a pass. EGT's went up with the same alky. flow WOT on the alky. turned on kinda low I guess around 12 psi. I don't think my EGT increase is due to burning any more alky. just the timing.

Now back to you, you are at 1325 EGT was that WOT? A good long test? Kinda low in MHO sounds like too much fuel or no boost for all that timing.

Why not start at 20-22* timing and then move the boost up to near where you want to run it at the track? Add the alky as you see fit. I would think you would want the EGT's in the mid 1500's on the street and maybe a tad more at the track.

I think you should be able to get 20-24* timing and 24 psi. boost with some alky. and NO KR at WOT.

Don't mean to sound harsh here, you shoulda seen me the night before track day trying to set up 2 solenoids!


Didn't work either, went back to 1 and the pliers.
 

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Okay after rereading this mess again what I am trying to say is, it is easier to go 2* timing changes and already have your boost up high safely with alky. to start with, than to have your timing up high, low boost and no alky. flowing and lots of added fuel to run that timing. I am thinking when you start to play with boost now you have to crank the alky. and do something with the fueling perhaps.


Hope that makes some sense. I like the high boost setup on the street full alky. and if I want to play with timing it's simply 2* a pop on the translator. Then watch the EGT's. and KR which should show minor changes per 2* increments. Add fuel at that point as needed.

Perhaps you can do it turning the boost up 2psi. or so each run but I am not so sure.

If it doesn't make any sense don't worry about it LOL.
 

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Hey very few bugs today Timmys a great day to work on the car.

Pretty much found the wandering problem with the GN too, that and a bad battery.


Idler arm and flatspotted Goodyears I guess. Less than 3K miles and sat too much in one spot I guess.


Zippy, guess what? West Virginia is the only state without confirmed cases of West Nile Virus. Guess they haven't found the bodies yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It's been a busy day, that's for sure. Before the alum. heads went on, I was running 25 [email protected] 21* timing. I don't have any quarter times on that combination, but it was smoking! (esp. after I blew the head gasket)


Anyway, now that I have changed heads, It's a different ball game. 20 psi, with 20* of timing aint cutting it! Since the alum heads absorb the heat so well, the heat that would be there to aid combustion, is gone. To get it there, I need to raise the timing to create the heat. It wouldn't suprise me to find out that I need to go to another 2 degrees in timing to get the most out of the charge.

Let me put it to you another way..

At 21* timing, I could add no additional fuel. None. It would bogg like crazy. Now with just 4 degrees timing advance (the chip shows 21* on the scanmaster-base timing) I am ingesting, and using 10-12 percent more fuel! And it is pulling well in 3rd gear.

As Steve had noted in the past, oval track racers had problems with the alum heads, because they absorbed so much heat. I am simply trying to generate the same amount of heat that you are producing at 22* timing by raising the timing to God knows what!.

I don't have all the answers yet, but I can tell you that the car is responding very, very well to advanced timing.

At the same time, at the power levels I am running, it does not like alchy injection. It doesn't run as strong once the alchy charge hits. Almost like I need higher cyl. temps to ingest the alchy.

This leads me to believe that the engine needs even more timing. That scares me a bit.

Tonight I pulled 4 percent of the gas, and the alchy worked much better. (though I put only 20% of the pump speed at it) But not great. There was no knock, but the power seemed to dip.

I've heard of guys running close to 30 degrees timing with alchy. I can't remember what heads they were running, but that is scary high. One malfunction with the alchy, and it's hello to new headgaskets.

I have to throw more timing at this. It's scary, but it seems like the right thing to do. I'm not looking forward to that, at all....


BTW the 1325* EGT's were at 75 mph. Sorry, I left that out.
 

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I gotcha on the Aluminum heads and all kinda makes sense.

Not sure why more boost won't help raise the temps. and make more power too.

Sooner or later you will want 24psi. boost anyway.


Good luck!!!
 

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I was away all day hanging out with the rich and famous in the Hamptons
You sound like you are on the right track. Try this, Set fuel pressure to 44lbs, set MAF Base to #2,set MAF WOT to #1, set Spark Base to # 4, set Spark WOT to # 6. Now on a hot idle fine tune in your blm's to 128. Start off with 18lbs of boost and go up until you get a trace a knock. Do all this with 94 oct gas and no alchy.

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ED BAKER
87-T-TYPE, PT54,MSD50's,Crane Billet Roller,JE forged20over,P&P Heads,Manley valves,Hemco 65mm& Acu65TB,V2 FM, P.I.9.5 -7disc,Jimmys Trans, [email protected] boost.10's soon
93 PARK AVE"SUPERCHARGED"
67RS/SS350 CAMARO
mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
 

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i dont let anyone touch my car except ed. everything he says is right. i've learned alot from ed. ed is a real real great guy. lol hell... if i didnt know ed i'd be spending alot of money to make my car fast by buying parts left and right.

to sum it up ed is a great guy and knows his sh!t!
 

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I've already got the parts, Ed would be a big help.

I think we should rent Englishtown and Ed for a day.


Good thing he works for food.


Gotta say though my car runs ok even with my tuning.
 

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Fuhgeddaboudit
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If you all keep this up I'm going to think I really know what I'm doing and demand desert with my meal you buy me.

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ED BAKER
87-T-TYPE, PT54,MSD50's,Crane Billet Roller,JE forged20over,P&P Heads,Manley valves,Hemco 65mm& Acu65TB,V2 FM, P.I.9.5 -7disc,Jimmys Trans, [email protected] boost.10's soon
93 PARK AVE"SUPERCHARGED"
67RS/SS350 CAMARO
mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
 

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I'm the Best!
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ed what about the brick oven pizza?
 

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Fuhgeddaboudit
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With cappuccino and a cannoli


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ED BAKER
87-T-TYPE, PT54,MSD50's,Crane Billet Roller,JE forged20over,P&P Heads,Manley valves,Hemco 65mm& Acu65TB,V2 FM, P.I.9.5 -7disc,Jimmys Trans, [email protected] boost.10's soon
93 PARK AVE"SUPERCHARGED"
67RS/SS350 CAMARO
mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
 

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I'm the Best!
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ed i'll give you that... broolyn has the best conolli's i do know of a amazing pastry shop out here tho
 

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What is a conolli? Is it anything like a canoli? Food is strange in Brooklyn!
 

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Fuhgeddaboudit
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Brooklyn Italian Cannoli's


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ED BAKER
87-T-TYPE, PT54,MSD50's,Crane Billet Roller,JE forged20over,P&P Heads,Manley valves,Hemco 65mm& Acu65TB,V2 FM, P.I.9.5 -7disc,Jimmys Trans, [email protected] boost.10's soon
93 PARK AVE"SUPERCHARGED"
67RS/SS350 CAMARO
mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
 

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It's Crooklyn!

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Supercharged Pontiac Bonneville
81 Corvette
87 Turbo T WE4
TA49, CAS V4, SS THDP (Jersey Style), 009s, Red's 93 Chip, XP pump, MM Boost Commander, engine tie strap, adjustable FP regulator, hot wire kit, snubber,K&N cone filter, B&M Super Cooler, Hooker exhaust, KYBs, Air bags, Scanmaster II and Turbo Link, VDO gauges and Kirban braces.
Mobil 1 / Original owner /GSCA member.
 
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