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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First, kudos to Mike (Orlando_87GN) for being there last night to lend his expertise and support.

After months of trials and tribulations with coolant leaks pass ARP studs and fuel pressure that had (still has) a mind of it own, I finally felt comfortable, make that less nervous
, enough to test the car. Only change to the setup was a Max Effort 16-pos for Blues.

The PTE-51 spooled up nicely in street trim but was an absolute dog in race trim. I could barely get 2# boost on the t-brake and those that know the car commented how sluggish it was off the line. Encouraging thing is that it got a 1.76!. Started out with very low boost, 17# and the car running extremely fat. There were a lot of strangeness in the cockpit and I was so tense I never glanced again at the boost gauge after seeing 17# in the early run. I am sure no one else has had that problem
.

I upped the boost 2 turns on the rod and saw only a 2mph difference. Upped it 2 more turns and the car went from 12.26 @ 113.33 to 11.73 @ 118.6. Finally came to life but I have no clue how much boost and the laptop lost power before I could save that buffer. Fuel pressure was supposed to 48#, but it had dropped to 46#, so I reset it to 48# and made one more pass. This time I had 0, nada, zippo boost at the line and ended up with a 1.89, 11.90 @ 118.53. Checked the fuel pressure after the run and....surprise, 50#. DS showed the O2s up in the 840-855 range.

Disappointing but not unexpected night with encouraging signs. Despite the car being a dog off the line, it was only .13 off its best 60'. Despite the O2s getting up to 855 and running what I would guess is about 20-21# boost, the car was only .2 & 1.91mph off its best (only ran it once) with the PTE-51. Despite the MPH being 1.91 slower than the previous best, last night it gained 2mph more in the 2nd half.

Hopefully I can get the fuel pressure problem solved soon and improve the spoolup. The Max Effort showed such a dramatic spoolup improvement in street trim, maybe there is something that can be done to improve spooling in race trim.

You listening Steve?



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Scottie's GNZ
 

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Hi Scottie,
Set the FP at 46 and try manipulating the 0 to 4000.
If you were running race fuel you might find dropping the 0 to 4000 down 6 or 10 numbers might be the answer, or try going up. Go out in the driveway and see if it spools better on the race settings.
Keep me posted,
Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hey Steve,
great to hear from you. Despite all the problems I had last night, let me gush a little about your product. When I first installed a Thrasher92 chip I discovered a new car in how smoothly it idled and how crisp the off idle was. Despite its great spooling capability, the PTE-51 was still a dog. I installed yours with the spoolup parameter at the leanest setting and with no other changes, I could put down 30+' stripes with 275 DRs and only 14# boost. Last night Mike and I got a kick out of a guy who stared at the engine setup in the staging lanes for about a minute then said "damn, that thing is running?"


So, it seems obvious that my spoolup problem is mixture related. Do I understand that the spoolup feature is only functional in pos 1-7? If so, any reason why not also in race mode? As for your recommendation, I was running 110-octane and we did drop that number but unfortunately that is when the FP crept up to 50#. It seems logical that dropping the FP to 46# in conjuction with dropping the 0-4000 should help, but will that affect anything else? In reviewing the DS file, the inj PW was nice and flat but the O2s were all over the place, between 830-855 then started tailing off at the top of 3rd and into 4th, dropping down to about 780. Unfortunately, 4th drops me below 4000RPMs (what I would do for another 500RPMs) and I am concerned that dropping the 0-4000 might have an impact there. BTW, we are still being conservative with the timing, leaving it at 18/24 for now. I ran 27* with the Red's 108, so there might be room for more.

Still learning but can feel the potential.

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Scottie's GNZ

[This message has been edited by Scottie-GNZ (edited January 25, 2001).]
 

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Spool up works in all positions.

Try knocking back the 0-4000 as Steve said. What TW position were you running in? Remember that you can drop fuel pressure and dial up on the TW unless you are already in position F. That will give you leaner bottom end but get to same place on the top end.

Also...remember that the chip automatically will go richer as long as it is not in "F" if it sees detonation....



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Steve Wood

86 GN bought new, TE45/ported heads/CAS front mount/MSD50's/TH dp/210 PTE Roller Cam/9-1 c.r./65mmTB-Hemco plenum/2 3/4" exhaust/Eibach springs/GNX style wheels/MAXEFFORT 16 pos chip with gas out feature/venturiless maf

87 T-type-Stock short block/ported heads/red stripes/TE44/2.5" Hooker exhaust/MAXEFFORT 16 position chip with gas out

81 El Camino with GN drive train-basically stock 86



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Scottie,
Remember the 0 to 4000 and spool up fuel is enabled just the first time you go through the range.....then it goes on the TW and stays there till you let off the gas.
Dont use 4th unless you have to. Some cars like it and some dont. Try not to let it drop below 4000 on a shift, hold the gear if you can.
And as S Wood says the spool up fuel and 0 to 4000 is the same in all pos's. Race fuel may require leaning out a little in these two areas.
Steve
 

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Scottie -

I have read all of the feedback here, and it is good. These guys are more knowledgable than I and their advice is invaluable. I just want to add something. I know you don't want to hear this... but until you get the fuel pressure stabilized and figured out.. your fueling is a crap shoot.

If you don't get the fuel pressure to the point where you can set it and forget it for months, then something is wrong. Especially if you are using the MaxEffort, the fuel for the most part (after it's initially tuned), should never need an adjustment.

I would suggest as a test to lose the little gauge on the fuel rail. Get with me, I have a huge AutoMeter fuel gauge that you can mount on your hood. I know it's frusterating when there are problems like this, but the fuel pressure is the foundation of this car. The chip is commanding fuel at certain times, expecting certain amounts of pressure. With it fluctuating, you'll never get it right. Let me know when you have some time. We can install this gauge and drive around to see what is happening.

BTW - That guy in the staging lanes that was starring at your engine.. That *was* classic when he asked if it was running. He probably thought any car running in the 12.99 and quicker lanes had to be ear bleeders...


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Email Address: mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>


Current Combo: Stock Turbo, V4, MSD50's, TH DP, JayJackson 62mm TB, 16position MaxEffort Chip.
12.35 & 108.39 Street Trim
11.92 @ 111.77 Race Ready

[This message has been edited by Orlando_87GN (edited January 26, 2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Mike,

congrats on breaking into the 11s. It's only just begun and now there is no going back, to street trim, i.e.


Ironically, when the guy asked the question, I looked down at the engine and for split second, thought.......

Let me know if you will have some time tomorrow. I cannot ever remember tackling a problem this baffling and frustrating. And, you are right about getting it fixed. Not sure I want to go through another night so tense behind the wheel.


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Scottie's GNZ
 

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Congrats Scottie.
I don't know if you read my reply in the hybrid section about your fluctuating FP problems. Hey I'm getting used to hunting gremlins and I thought I would throw my 0.02 cents worth in.
Good luck.
Paul

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1972 Toyota Celica with a 87 TR drive train.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Paul,
I did see your post.

I am running a Martone FPR. He already sent me a replacement. The pump is a Pierburg. It is equivalent to the big external Bosch pump and is the one the Corky Bell recommends and sells. It is about a year old. I have been using a FRAM HPG-1 filter for years and someone suggested that maybe it was the problem so I ran the other night with the element removed as a test. The pump is now wired off the alt and the ground now goes directly back to the batt. I have blown air from my compressor though the return line which is -6 off the rail then 5/16" from the firewall back. I have removed the rollover valve from the aluminum fuel cell vent. Only thing left is installing foam which is back-ordered. I am out of ideas but will keep checking.

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Scottie's GNZ
 
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