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Village Idiot
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The next time you go to the track you may want to pull your license plates off. A bunch of co workers and I went to the local track a couple of months ago. One of the guys I went with just got a letter in the mail from his insurance company (Progressive) saying that his Mustang had been seen racing at a race track. Since they saw his car racing it became a high risk and they dropped it. But they only dropped the one car, the rest of his vehicles are fine. So I am guessing he will change all of his vehicles to another company. If I hear more info I will pass it along.
 

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Back in 88 , we use to take our plates off and cover our vin numbers because there use to be gm reps there take numbers and voiding warranties. I brought my car in for warranty in 1989 for a rear main seal and broken tranny. They said they had reports of my car at the track..they took oil samples and sent the to Oshawa(GM HQin Canada) I told them to prove it. After two weeks of bulls$it and the sevice manager telling me to pay half the bill,my car was fixed for the reg 100.00 fee. Well,l got a new tranny and rear seal that lasted about a month.
 

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The Video Guy
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BigMike said:
Well,l got a new tranny and rear seal that lasted about a month.

Damn... that freaking sucks. :crazy:
 

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I got it figured out
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Being as I work in insurance I would ask the insurance company to show me where in the policy, what specific reason and what section of the policy it states they can cancel coverage for a car at a track.

One thing that is clear is that there is an exclusions for payment of a claim for an "organized road race" which most racing at the track would fall into and they could rightfully deny a claim.

If you want to take it a step further call the department of insurance for the state you are in and lodge a complaint. Dept's of insurance are usually very consumer oriented and most times rule in their favor.

The insurance company will probably come back with their reason to cancel is in "accordance to their underwriting guidelines" which may give them some leeway, but I have never heard of a mid-term cancellation for "underwriting guidelines".

I would start with the dept of insurance and see what they tell you.

Best of luck.
 

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In the 60's and 70's it was common for dealers to have someone at the drags on the look out for new muscle cars still under warranty. They would refuse to pay for repairs if they saw your vehicle in the staging lanes.
 

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Gotta love the autobahn!
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Insurance companies are criminal. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT!!

Hrmm.. let's see, it's "high risk" if they catch you at a RACE TRACK practicing under a controlled safe environment. Between this and the tracks being closed because someone thought it's a great idea to build their million dollar house next to it, it's no wonder that street racing is so popular.

Thanks for the tip Doug. I might just do that from now on.
 

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Irish ****
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BigMike said:
Back in 88 , we use to take our plates off and cover our vin numbers because there use to be gm reps there take numbers and voiding warranties. I brought my car in for warranty in 1989 for a rear main seal and broken tranny. They said they had reports of my car at the track..they took oil samples and sent the to Oshawa(GM HQin Canada) I told them to prove it. After two weeks of bulls$it and the sevice manager telling me to pay half the bill,my car was fixed for the reg 100.00 fee. Well,l got a new tranny and rear seal that lasted about a month.
It was nice having Fernando working at Leggats.
 

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2 GN's = No money!!
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BigMike said:
Back in 88 , we use to take our plates off and cover our vin numbers because there use to be gm reps there take numbers and voiding warranties. I brought my car in for warranty in 1989 for a rear main seal and broken tranny. They said they had reports of my car at the track..they took oil samples and sent the to Oshawa(GM HQin Canada) I told them to prove it. After two weeks of bulls$it and the sevice manager telling me to pay half the bill,my car was fixed for the reg 100.00 fee. Well,l got a new tranny and rear seal that lasted about a month.
BigMike,

Not all dealerships were like that in Ontario back then. A friend of my dad's broke a piston while racing with crappy fuel and we got him a brand new short block even when his original engine had an aftermarket cam and Kenne-Bell heads, etc. on it.

They probably gave you a pretty hard time due to your age back then. :sw:
 

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A friend of mine got his warranty voided on his 01 Z06 after a GM rep saw the car racing at e-town and recorded the license plate. After that incident, I always remove the plates of any vehicle I'm racing if it's still under warranty.
 

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Buicksx2 said:
Being as I work in insurance I would ask the insurance company to show me where in the policy, what specific reason and what section of the policy it states they can cancel coverage for a car at a track.

One thing that is clear is that there is an exclusions for payment of a claim for an "organized road race" which most racing at the track would fall into and they could rightfully deny a claim.

If you want to take it a step further call the department of insurance for the state you are in and lodge a complaint. Dept's of insurance are usually very consumer oriented and most times rule in their favor.

The insurance company will probably come back with their reason to cancel is in "accordance to their underwriting guidelines" which may give them some leeway, but I have never heard of a mid-term cancellation for "underwriting guidelines".

I would start with the dept of insurance and see what they tell you.

Best of luck.

Well put Rich.
I would be questioning why an insurance company would cancel my coverage on a car I occassionally raced at the track.
They're not on the hook for such things,so why should they care?
Now the factory warranties,that's another thing.
After watching officer "Bob Speed" on tv the other day telling everyone that racers should take it to the track,why the he!! would they?
They have to worry about insurance spotters,factory spotters,MTO & MOE inspections[even cars on trailers,if they're plated apparently].
Some of the clowns who "administer" to cars in this country and yours are real self absorbed jacka$$e$.
 

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that is so damn sketchy man . It's pretty stupid that we even have to be suspicous at a track . My agent knows I race just about everything I own and she just always trys to get me to ensure my engines LOL!
 

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richie6 said:
It was nice having Fernando working at Leggats.
Ya that was true.
But he was getting in crap because I use to see around 5 to 7 Buicks there at one time getting warranty work done there.Some had lots of stuff done to them and some still had race tires still on them will getting warranty done to them. He said to take it where I bought my car to do the tranny because he was getting some heat. Hell, that dealership even punched out my cats for me and added my ATR stuff while it was getting warranty work done on it. Ah,,the good old days ..LOL
 

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Dont visit foreign SITES
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I blew an engine not under warranty and bought a GM short block a new
SG-1, warranteed for 12k 1yr. and on the bill they put notations that I had removed b.s. valve cover ventalation and installed breathers.
I wonder if they were preparing to dispute if I had a claim :dunno: .
But that engine ran great for years ......sold it a long time ago, I recently carfaxed it and the car is still going today.
But I used to go to e-town all the time and see duct tape over the plates and paper covering the vins.
 

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Village Idiot
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The guy who had insurance canceled is on the road. So I haven't been able to catch up with him yet. But two fellow racers I work with read the letter. I have no reason to doubt either of these two people since they have no reason to lie. The letter was on company letter head and stated that it was a breach of contract. So the dumped his Mach One, but his other fox bodies and trucks are fine. So he just moved on to another insurance company. I don't know if his policy was renewing or what the whole deal is. I just know he got a letter saying they would no longer insure his car because it was seen at the track. Which makes no sense to me anyway. If your car is totalled or wrecked at the track it is your responsability anyway. So take it for what it's worth. :D
 

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Turbocharged BrunoStachel
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The only thing that bugs me about this thread are all of the statements that make a reference to the license plate. Since when do you give the ins.co your license plate number? Maybe its different in other states but I cant remember once giving out that information. Now I could see if some spook was running around the track recording VIN's and cross referencing them in the company computer. Personally if some one said they saw my plate at the track I would say to them prove it. I've been known to swap plates around just to get my car to the track so I dont get pulled over by the man for not having plates and insurance. With out the VIN they dont have chit IMO. You sure your friend didn't get a traffic ticket for doing something stupid?Actually what really bugs me, is there a big problem that ins.co's need to pull this stunt? Seems to me the track is the safest place to drive a car. Heck of a lot safer than the street. I've seen a few street cars crash on the track but if I had to guess I'd say 99% of the wrecks are done with real race cars that aren't insured. I find it hard to beleive that there is enough fraud going on that they need to waste the time and money by sending spooks out to spy on us. Now that I think about it I bet this is their answer to the "fast and furious" crowd. Stupid ins.co idiots dont know street racing from an organized event. Maybe we need to get something organized and inform the ins.co's that this isn't the way to do it. I wonder if SEMA or maybe the NHRA have a lobbyist that is involved in this issue? Dont you think its kind of funny that if you wreck your car at the track it isn't insured but if it is loaded on the trailer and some clown crashes into it while it is being towed it is covered assuming you have the proper coverage.

And on the subject of warranties. If your modified car needs to be repaired under warranty and you can prove that the modified parts did not cause the failure than it is covered. You can take your brand new Z/06 out and do the 12 hours of Sebring and if it throws a rod or whatever and you can prove it was a defective part than it is covered. We run into that all of the time. The big problem is in how the service dept diagnosis the cause. A lot of times when there is a big problem GM knows damn well there is a problem. When you start doing warranty claims on something that doesn't fail all that often then it throws up a red flag somewhere and than the questions on why it was replaced start flying.I can remember back in 91 when the Syclone hit the streets. GMC dealers were required to seal the ECM so they could tell if the cover had been off and the chip was replaced. There was also a list of stuff that if the dealer needed to replace they had to call in for authorization before it could be replaced. Almost the entire drive line was on that list. I guess 280HP was the threshold at which that truck held together with out problems. I can also remember seeing a bulletin telling the dealers to look and see if the ECM was tampered with on the other cars. GM told us it was not so much to see if the cars were raced and abused but so that the tech could perform the work with out running into other problems that might keep them from doing a satisfactory job in fixing it right the first time, or something like that.
 

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It's me, really
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I remember Syclone problems. We had alot come through with replaced engines due to knock. They were generally customer buyback vehicles, lemon law or something. The ticket was $8000 on those engines back then, ouch.
 

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The only thing that bugs me about this thread are all of the statements that make a reference to the license plate. Since when do you give the ins.co your license plate number?


thats a damn good point ! Mine never once asked me for a plate number
 

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Fuhgeddaboudit
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86NYGN said:
In the 60's and 70's it was common for dealers to have someone at the drags on the look out for new muscle cars still under warranty. They would refuse to pay for repairs if they saw your vehicle in the staging lanes.
Not really, They promoted racing I worked for GM in the late 60's and we put on many High Performance race tuning clinics. Ford and Chrysler did the same thing. I attended many at Baldwin Chevy, Markowitz Olds and Rockville Center Dodge with Dick Landy and Ronnie Sox. Also most of the dealers here in the East all had race cars they owned or sponsored. I never seen or heard of any claims refused back then. I never seen Insurance co. or dealers at the track and I lived at the track. I agree now that Progressive does do what you say. There have been reports of them at the track. I also seen them in action a few times. They rang my bell asking me about a neighbor who has his car registered out of state at his vacation home. They wanted to know how often I seen him and his car during the summer. :sw:
 

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Gotta love the autobahn!
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See, I could understand if the insurance reps were at the track, witnessed a wreck or something on the track, recorded the license plates and protected themselves from fraudulant claims. If you later tried to claim the accident was on the street somewhere, they could call your bluff, say it's fraud and have evidence to prove it. That's fine. The insurance companies are protecting themselves.

But in WHAT WAY, are you a high-risk to them??? As long as you are fully aware that your claims are invalid while on the track, what should it matter to them?? If anything, you're a low-risk. You are being responsible. You're responsibly going to a place where you can go faster than the legal limit. If you do the same thing on the street you get a fine, points and possible jail for street racing. What the heck is the point of buying a performance car if you aren't allowed to let it PERFORM under any circumstances.

Like I said before, insurance company's are criminal. I can understand and agree with them protecting their interests, but this is simply the insurance companys exercising their control over the masses.
 

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I already posted this in the MAGNA section but saw it was getting more views here:

First ,I want to say that I am not calling anyone a liar- I would be interested in seeing the letter.

But -most insurance companies don't log tags- I don't think Progressive does as I can't see it on any policy screen I look at everyday , nor is that screen automatically populated when a claim comes in. I don't recall giving my tag to my allstate agent when I add cars either.

Let's assume they use the VIN. How would they know which cars they insure?
They would have to pay someone ( which they aren't going to do) to walk around a track and correctly write down the vin on every car ( which would take time and clearly raise some concern in the pits). The with the 100-200 vins they have now collected , run that through their computer to see if they insure that vin. Simply put- that doesnt happen that I am aware of - I will look on my job transfer list to see if can get a job doing it though :)

Next is the exclusion for racing. An everyday car taken to the track is NOT an unacceptable risk for the policy. Racing , once proven , is an excluded act on the policy which could result in a claims denial. Claims get denied for racing but the policy isn't canceled nor are any cars dropped from the policy . The claim is simply denied. I have looked at a car that had a tag frame that said " hell yea I drag race" - I don't care unless it affects the claim. There are sometimes issues with cars that arent acceptable for policies based on frame construction or vin issues. This has more to do with the fact it would be tough to value the car or repair it correctly. The insurance company has a greater exposure insuring someone who got a ticket for running a stop sign than they do with a drag racer. Racing claims are very rare and intersection accidents happen everyday, sometime with horrible results.


When I was in the GM school I went to , the teacher told us all the same story about an overzealous GM employee going to the track and reporting all * insert your Corvette/GN/Fbody here * and then trying to void warranties. Total BS . You can only deny warranty work on a related part to racing- and that has to be proven. If a car come in with nitrous on it and a blown engine I would look into it . If it came in with a window regulator issue - who cares. Plus the time I waste trying to get a job not covered by warranty , I could be making money fixing the problem .

Again , I would love to see the letter. Not trying to upset anyone - just putting some perspective on how much work would be involved just to get rid of a paying customer who ,based soley on their actions, represents no risk to the insurance company as they wouldn't pay a race track related claim. Plus bike accidents make a large volume of their claims - if they worried about reckless racing they wouldnt insure any crotch rocket.
 
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