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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone, hope all is well. I have a question about the air conditioning system. The entire system has been emptied of all Freon 12 and has been gone over because of a small leak. Now that everything is sealed up I need to have it recharged. I have a stock of R12, enough for a few charges and need to know what is involved in charging a fresh system. I have access to a vaccuum pump and charging lines. Has anybody done this or have technical know how to do this safely?

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Brad Thompson,1987 GN T-top, GNX takeoff turbo from ASC, CASV4, 65mm AccuFab plenum, 65mm PTE TB, Jay Carter Alky Kit, Walboro 340, 42.5# Lucas 009's, Jay Carter Street 93 chip, Red Armstrong 93 and Race chip, Metco Billet rear lower control arms, Scanmaster2, 3" MAF and translator, Chrome alternator, ATR 8.5mm wires, braided fuel and turbo oil feed lines, ATR cold air kit, 14" K&N filter, Kenne-Bell ram air induction dam, Fully Kirban Braced, ATR 3" downpipe with 3" high flow cat and crossover, Ported turbo exhust housing with Jett-Hot coating. Hooker supercomp 2.5 dual exhaust, Stainless rear pipes, Jett-Hot coated ATR header, Aluminum underdrive pully, Custom Mallory Billet alternator pulley and fan, fully gauged, Caspers knock gauge, 16" GNX wheels, BF Goodrich Comp TA ZR's, shaft loop, pinion snubber, 4-core rad with high volume pump, manual fan controller, GNX O2 sensor, Art Carr shift kit with deep aluminum finned pan, B&M transcooler, Kenne-Bell hood mounted fuel pressure gauge, ATR intercooler air
deflector, Original GNX wheel flares and repro fender louvers, Viper keyless entry and security. Boost set at a confident 22# (with Alcohol) on 94 Octane Sunoco mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
 

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What was replaced on the system? How much oil was taken out if any?

You need the accumulator/drier new one and I would add a few ounces of oil or cut open the one you remove and check to see how much is in there.

After that just evacuate for 1/2 hour approx. and make sure the vacuum is steady and then refill to system spec.'s.

I am sure you will get more replies too.
 

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It is simple if you have the things you mentioned. Just put it on the vaccuum for about 30min and if it does not lose any vaccuum afterwards, you are ready for freon. This gets the system empty and tells you if you have any leaks. The lable under the hood will tell you how much R12 you will need. Hook up the proper hoses to your freon and the car. Then, start the car and turn on the AC. The system will suck in the freon. There are two ways of doing this depending if you have cans or a tank. With the tank, most people don't measure, they just put their hand on the evaporator or infront of the vents until either are cold enough.(don't do this) The cans are measured so you just switch cans until you are through. This may be obvious, but be sure to shut off the valve between cans. Simple right?

Doing this is illegal in here in CA, so no one ever does it.


Good luck.

[This message has been edited by shaunchrisc (edited February 10, 2002).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks guys, I have the system under a vaccuum and all the NCG's are out, just waiting to see if the vaccuum holds the leak test. In regards to the oil, I did lose about 5 ounces or so fromthe evap tank. How do I add oil to the system? and I assume that it is just regular refrigerant oil? Thanks again and I appreciate the help.
Brad
 

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Use the R12 recharge oil or you can buy it in a bottle and pour 5 ounces into the accumulator/dryer thingy and then redraw the vacuum on it and then fill it.

Not sure how much oil is in one of those recharge cans. Should say right on the label though. Just make sure it's for R12 systems.
 

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What if it leaks?? Is there a miracle stop leak spray or something?
How about Green Slime will that stop the leaks? Seriously though, I think I have a leak becaue all of a sudden one balmy summer I lost my A/C... Wanna get it fixed this year before I'm tempted to remove it all together.
 

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If I were you I would replace the oriface tube! expantion valve "same" Its really easy to do now & is very cheep insurance because its also a filter! Not to mention the system will work better.
 

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Originally posted by PRSRIZD_V6:
What if it leaks?? Is there a miracle stop leak spray or something?
How about Green Slime will that stop the leaks? Seriously though, I think I have a leak becaue all of a sudden one balmy summer I lost my A/C... Wanna get it fixed this year before I'm tempted to remove it all together.
The only thing I know of is that liquid that glows under ultraviolet light in the leaky spot.

My uncle, who does this stuff for a living, told me that most car A/Cs become leaky because they are not turned on during the winter. The system needs to circulate the oil so the o-rings don't rot. That is why refidgerators last years, and your A/C in your car needs a recharge once every couple years. Morale to the story: turn your A/C on once every two weeks in the winter.
 

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Originally posted by fast86:
If I were you I would replace the oriface tube! expantion valve "same" Its really easy to do now & is very cheep insurance because its also a filter! Not to mention the system will work better.
This is real,real,real important to replace. Pull it out with a extractor or needle nose pliers. Also you may have to jump the cycle switch until enough freon gets into the system to keep the clutch engaged



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ED BAKER
87-T-TYPE, PT54,MSD50's,Crane Billet Roller,JE forged20over,P&P Heads,Manley valves,Hemco 65mm& Acu65TB,V2 FM, P.I.9.5 -7disc,Jimmys Trans, new times soon.
93 PARK AVE"SUPERCHARGED"
67RS/SS350 CAMARO
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you shouldn't need to turn on your AC in the winter (at least not in an '87 model). When you turn on the defroster, the compressor cycles (check for yourself). That was done on purpose for just the reason shaunchrisc describes. first time I noticed it I thought the control switch was broken.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I will keep all these things in mind when I commission the system, but up here in Canada the winters mean that the car is off the road for 5 months from December to May. Trust me there is no need for AC in the winter up here! LOL.

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Brad Thompson,1987 GN T-top, GNX takeoff turbo from ASC, CASV4, 65mm AccuFab plenum, 65mm PTE TB, Jay Carter Alky Kit, Walboro 340, 42.5# Lucas 009's, Jay Carter Street 93 chip, Red Armstrong 93 and Race chip, Metco Billet rear lower control arms, Scanmaster2, 3" MAF and translator, Chrome alternator, ATR 8.5mm wires, braided fuel and turbo oil feed lines, ATR cold air kit, 14" K&N filter, Kenne-Bell ram air induction dam, Fully Kirban Braced, ATR 3" downpipe with 3" high flow cat and crossover, Ported turbo exhust housing with Jett-Hot coating. Hooker supercomp 2.5 dual exhaust, Stainless rear pipes, Jett-Hot coated ATR header, Aluminum underdrive pully, Custom Mallory Billet alternator pulley and fan, fully gauged, Caspers knock gauge, 16" GNX wheels, BF Goodrich Comp TA ZR's, shaft loop, pinion snubber, 4-core rad with high volume pump, manual fan controller, GNX O2 sensor, Art Carr shift kit with deep aluminum finned pan, B&M transcooler, Kenne-Bell hood mounted fuel pressure gauge, ATR intercooler air
deflector, Original GNX wheel flares and repro fender louvers, Viper keyless entry and security. Boost set at a confident 22# (with Alcohol) on 94 Octane Sunoco mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
 

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ACtually, the compressor runs in defrost also as the colder air is dryer. It stays dry as it crosses the heater core and soaks the moisture right off the window faster than recycled air which would have more humidity in it.

Be sure that you pull the vacuum down and then hold it for about 30 minutes to see if it drops which would indicate a leak.

As mentioned, you will have to jump the pressure switch on the can to get the compressor to run...hook your freon supply up and let the vaccum in the system and the supply pressure pull some into the system before starting the engine. Be sure to purge the lines of air (the lines connecting the freon source to the system) so you don't push/pull air back into the system. Also be sure to replace the orfice tube as suggested above. If you can find someone with a leak detector, after you put a can in, check the hose connections at the compressor and at the other end on the condensor-wiggle them a bit...damn things are bad about leaking there. It will be easier if you are in a warm area as the freon sometimes gets contrary about going gaseous....
 

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think my a/c needs recharging too. first i need to identify the parts of the a/c and where they are at. So where is the orifice tube located at? What about the accumulator dryer thingy?

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87 GN Hardtop~ stock motor, stock intercooler w/Duttweiler big neck,stock D5 converter, TE 51 w/.63 exhaust housing,big mouth cold air induction, hotwired walboro 340, MSD 50's, cold air induction, stock TB and plenum, THDP, 3" ATR dual exhaust, 10 mm Magnecor wries, B&M tranny cooler, performance transmissions deep aluminum pan, Dynotech shift kit, VDO gauges, Autometer boost gauge, SMC alchy injection, PTE remote oil system, ATR 3" maf pipe, scanmaster 2, boost command
 

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I never changed the tube but I think it's in a line near the accumulator thingy.


Anyway the accumulator/dryer is the black or silver can near the fan motor where the lines come in from the condensor and go into the car near the heater. It has the low pressure fill port as well as the cycling low pressure round switch in it near the power antenna side of the car. It has a connector with two wires in it that have to be jumped to first charge the system and start the compressor, usually.
 

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The orifice is located in the small line coming out of the evaporator going to the condensor. Its right in front of the blower motor" See the connection there" If you take the line apart there its in the line" just pull it out & reinstall a new one. The crimp in that line is what holds it in place.
 

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Originally posted by shaunchrisc:
It is simple if you have the things you mentioned. Just put it on the vaccuum for about 30min and if it does not lose any vaccuum afterwards, you are ready for freon. This gets the system empty and tells you if you have any leaks. The lable under the hood will tell you how much R12 you will need. Hook up the proper hoses to your freon and the car. Then, start the car and turn on the AC. The system will suck in the freon. There are two ways of doing this depending if you have cans or a tank. With the tank, most people don't measure, they just put their hand on the evaporator or infront of the vents until either are cold enough. The cans are measured so you just switch cans until you are through. This may be obvious, but be sure to shut off the valve between cans. Simple right?

Doing this is illegal in here in CA, so no one ever does it.


Good luck.
DO NOT EVER!!!!! charge an auto AC system without monitoring high side pressure. A restriction such as a clogged orifice of inoperative condenser fan could cause the system to discharge rapidly in your face (blow something up) or cause the can to blow up in your hand. If you dont have the equipment and the FIRM knowledge, DO NOT TOUCH THE SYSTEM.

How can you charge the system by feel? That is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. Please dont shovel this crap and contribute to someone getting hurt. If the system takes 3.25lb, that will be your target charge, but you still MUST monitor high side pressure for problems.Go to gnttype and read my "ac101" article. That should leave you with just about nothing to chance. If after reading that article, and you feel you understood it. Buy a set of gauges and have at it. Otherwise, pay someone to do it before you get hurt.
As for a vacuum, you pull the system into a vacuum to BOIL OFF MOISTURE, nothing more. Water at 30" vacuum boils at oh, 60* or so. (I forget the exact "spec"

If you need to jumper the low pressure switch, you're doing it wrong and very well may damage the compressor when you fire it up. To charge, fill with ~1lb of refrigerant PRIOR to starting the system. That will bring pressures well over the 40# required to close the pressure switch. If you read my article, you'd know this already


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Jim Testa
1986 Regal T-Type
Stock block w/girdle, stock rods, TRW's, JE pins, 214/210 roller, TurboMotion port/polished heads w/1.77-1.50 valves, T&D roller rockers, Champ intake w/o EGR, PTE plenum, Accufab 70mm TB, MSD50's, TE61, PTE front mount, SMC alcohol inj, JT trans, 3000 vigilante, stock rear w/Hotchkiss arms, and kick ass tunes..





[This message has been edited by TurboJim (edited February 09, 2002).]
 

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Very good advice!!
 

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Great article Jim. Next time I will point others in that direction. I assumed that he was using the guages when he said 'charging lines.' I can understand how my advice could and/or will lead someone to a dangerous experience. I should have been clear to recomend against doing it by feel. Although, it is commonly done, but never without the guages. Doing any of this is illegal here, so you could imagine all the other things that happen.
 

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Then again if you actually look in the Buick service manual for the car you will notice there is a section called:

Insufficient Cooling "Quick-Check" Procedure

Yup the old hand feel refill test.


Page 1B-6

No it's not for a "dead" system but sometimes it works for Buick A/C systems.

Check it out it's a nice test.
 

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The feeley thing on the accumulator has been used for years" Around here anyway" But you do have to have a general knowledge of what the hell your doing! Like 1 1/2lb's of freon & the accum is not even getting cold there could be a problem on the high side" If its getting cold theres not a problem on the high side" and you get both sides of the accum the same temp.
It will be pretty hard to get a lb of freon in the AC system with out the clutch possibly burning itself up anyway cause it will turn on & off every 2 seconds if your only using guages. * A recovery system will vacuate & charge the whole system without even starting the car.*
JT is correct" if you dont know what your doing "Leave it to someone that does!
My 02's
 
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