[Grumpy]

Do you really think an air-to-air IC is doing a good job of cooling the charge in the burnout box? I suppose if you have a stock location IC with fan it would. Most do not.

front mount intercooler on a mid 9 @141 street car .. obviously you can guess all ya want.. been there an did it :sw: you have all these "idea's" BUT have never done them yourself :dunno: I am done..

 

[VxTurboxV]

front mount intercooler on a mid 9 @141 street car .. obviously you can guess all ya want.. been there an did it :sw: you have all these "idea's" BUT have never done them yourself :dunno: I am done..

I'm sure not personally attacking you. You've accomplished a ton and I respect that.

No one said an intercooler doesn't work? :dunno:

But there are pleanty of turbo guys that have gone alot faster than mid 9's at 141 without an intercooler. Whether I personally have isn't the point here. Point being, an IC is not always necessary, and there are ways around it.

Both my turbo cars have pre and post injection. Both are intercooled as well. Going e85 this year too.

 

[Steve Wood]

Sounds like Aquamist has been reinvented 20 years later. Get enuf nozzles and you might be able to spray enuf to support a GN.

Steve Hill and Dman? got plumbing licenses and duplicated it long ago.

 

[87bigcut]

I say run it at the track and see what you get. Remember, NA cranks will never hold any HP, street cars overheat with front mounts, powerglide's suck, dropping the rear ratio down will never work, etc.

Granted, a lot of ideas go nowhere and end up not being worth the trouble. But, if no one tried anything questionable, these cars would still be running a 12.50 and that would be considered quick.

I have learned to take almost everything grumpy has said in the last 3 years with a large grain of salt. I am sure that when I have been into cars that long I will have a brutally fast street car. He is just being what his screen name says, a grump.

 

[Grumpy]

I have learned to take almost everything grumpy has said in the last 3 years with a large grain of salt. I am sure that when I have been into cars that long I will have a brutally fast street car. He is just being what his screen name says, a grump.

well drive your nice front mount up here an cruise the beach for an hour or so (ya sitting in traffic and heat !) and prove to me it doesn't run hot. :yup: I know ya need a front mount, Fast system, Turbo 400, GN1 alum heads and of course a non lock up converter to run 9s How fast did YOU go in your car ?? :dunno: Been to the school of hard knox.. been there an done it :sw:

...Oh ya.. track #s is what its all about.. dynos are for dyno queens that never see the tracks :crazy:

 

[Steve Wood]

well drive your nice front mount up here an cruise the beach for an hour or so (ya sitting in traffic and heat !) and prove to me it doesn't run hot. :yup: I know ya need a front mount, Fast system, Turbo 400, GN1 alum heads and of course a non lock up converter to run 9s How fast did YOU go in your car ?? :dunno: Been to the school of hard knox.. been there an done it :sw:

...Oh ya.. track #s is what its all about.. dynos are for dyno queens that never see the tracks :crazy:

dyno numbers will get you a good parking spot at the WAWA:sw:

 

[Steve Wood]

Sorry, but I cannot let this one pass.

I say run it at the track and see what you get. Remember, NA cranks will never hold any HP- You basically made this one up. Any HP is a meaningless term that might sound good, but is just meaningless. People have always said that NA cranks will not handle the HP of a filleted crank-that is a big difference., street cars overheat with front mounts- again, you are playing loose with words. We have repeatedly stated that a front mount will cause a car to run hotter than a stock location. That is simple physics. Front mounts reduce airflow and the air that does pass thru may be hotter than ambient so the engine has to run hotter. Practically, the effect is a question of where you live as a hot day in NY is a relatively cool day where I live. The real point is that one gets very little benefit from a front mount in comparison to some of the downsides-unless one is pushing a regal into the Nines..., powerglide's suck-PG's do suck on a street car if one is looking for gas mileage and overall drivability-but Lawrence Conley ran one in Tweaked 20 years ago so they are excellent for a purpose built car, dropping the rear ratio down will never work, etc. Conley ran a 4.10 in Black and made it work...technically that is dropping the ratio down, btw. Lotsa guys ran 3.70s long ago as well. Higher ratio gears work in the TTA's which have a much better drag coefficient than a regal and they work well in lightweight hybrids that don't need the torque multiplication to get moving. Many of us have run 28" tires, and taller, on regals to take advantage of the inherent torque of a properly modified engine....dropping the ratio "down" is nothing new.

Granted, a lot of ideas go nowhere and end up not being worth the trouble. But, if no one tried anything questionable, these cars would still be running a 12.50 and that would be considered quick.

I have learned to take almost everything grumpy has said in the last 3 years with a large grain of salt. I am sure that when I have been into cars that long I will have a brutally fast street car. He is just being what his screen name says, a grump. Dan was running a lot faster than 12.50s when you were still riding in a car seat. He also runs his cars everyday without having to rebuild them. I suspect that he understands car physics better than you do at the moment....and also understands that your new ideas may be new to you, but, that does not make them new. If he hurts your feelings, time to grow up and get over it.

 

[Steve Wood]

And, you know what is hilarious about this thread? The fact that this is being passed off as something new.

Aquamist will be be surprised to learn its technology has been reinvented

Aquamist

As I mentioned earlier, Steve Hill and Dennis K spent timing implementing it on a near stock Regal with good success 20 years, or more, ago....other than a lot of nozzles to get sufficient volume and a lot of money, it worked...

 

[Grumpy]

As I mentioned earlier, Steve Hill and Dennis K spent timing implementing it on a near stock Regal with good success 20 years, or more, ago....other than a lot of nozzles to get sufficient volume and a lot of money, it worked...

I did a couple of converter changes for Steve.. I was NOT in the alky stuff at all . I opened the hood.. laughed and shut it Steve did a lot of ALKY testing back in those days . Julio finally convinced me to try it on Melissa's old mid 11 WE4 . Needless to say I got the Alky bug hook, line, an sinker :headbang: Steve had so much testing stuff on the car it looked like the "back to the future" car Steve sold his car a few years ago.. I was shocked BUT life goes on :cheers:

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Kind of forgot about this thread, but we're not really talking about Preturbo anymore.

Julio, I'll save the pump questions to Devils Own but I believe they don't run a 250psi pump to 250psi to make the nozzle sizes not match their nozzle calculator. Maybe Chance will get into pump details about their product, but I know they can set it to 250psi if the customer needs it (quad nozzle).

The "IF" concerning alky matching the intercooler inlet temp is one that others have shown already injecting with big twins and even lower via quad nozzles (I think Julio has an SRT quad nozzle customer). The intercooler can only get within a certain % to ambient temps anyways so it's not really that hard with todays kits. There's a DSM tuner named Lucas English who runs E85, no intercooler and twin 15gph nozzles of pure Meth with Julio's pump. He has the EVOIII turbo record of 10.6 at 30psi so there are others already doing this and doing it really well.

Not sure if this has come up, but an alky company called AIS sells HUGE 14gph nozzle Preturbo kits to Big Block tuners. They can be found on The Turbo Forums.com, there are a bunch of happy customers running nozzle sizes I wouldn't even recommend in front of the turbo.

I'm trying to shine the light on a measly 2gph Preturbo nozzle on those guys are running 14gph. :crazy::yup:

 

[Razor]

I have a 2000 PSI pump I turn down to 150 PSI. :dunno: :wink: If you call it a 250 PSI pump its suppossed to deliver 250 PSI :dunno: This has nothing to do with Devil's Own. Its industry wide. This is real easy, you take a pump, pressure gauge, nozzle, and apply 12 volts :wink:

The AIS stuff is Coolingmist. They now have a larger tank with a pump that mounts on it. Injection works irreguardless of what brand period. The difference is methodology, customer service, and experience tuning the particular product.

The 14 GPH is a chinese nozzle size. 15 gph is the Hago which is American made. :usa:

Lucas bough that pump a few years ago.. I was modifying FJO pieces for him that had valve failures. Glad he's put the stuff to great use.

I was testing a new pump yesterday that was pinning the 300 PSI gauge on an M15 nozzle. I have a video I need to make... when I slow down... i'm going to put up showing a 250 PSI Aquatec pump vs the Shurflo I sell. Be amazed at the differences in pressure curves, current, and pressure output.

If IAT's are low.. Turbo outlet temps are where they need to be.. why worry about pre-compressor :wink: :cheers:

 

[GNVYUS 1]

They can set it to 250 if the customer wants but I'm sure they don't because how much does the average single nozzle guy need? And I'm sure 100% pressure means more pump wear and tear.

Ya I knew AIS was selling the Coolingmist stuff, AIS is a new player and found the Big Block guys since the rest of the market was already taken. AIS seems to always recommend the 14gph, but with an 88mm comp wheel, it doesn't sound that big anymore. :eek!:

Ya Lucas is a great showcase of Meth with E85 and how ditching the intercooler really helps tiny turbos play with the big boys.

See, now a pump like that would be great for a guy like me. I need a pump to flow at least 3 nozzles and keep the pressure up.

Now now, making comments about Preturbo after all we've seen over the last two years is rubish. You'll be spraying soon. :yup:

 

[Razor]

They can set it to 250 if the customer wants but I'm sure they don't because how much does the average single nozzle guy need? And I'm sure 100% pressure means more pump wear and tear.

Think of what you just wrote.

You need the pump set to maximum and then use the controller to regulate down the pressure. Meaning a 250 PSI pump should be set to 250 PSI. If not, its not a 250 PSI pump :wink: In the event the motor overboosts and needs the 250 its there. Not that it runs at 250 PSI constantly.

A 250 PSI pump does not make 250 PSI when you apply 6 volts to the motor.

As far as what the average guy needs.. he needs as much as possible and not be limited by anything.

There is no additional wear setting a pump at 100 vs 250 as the pumps dont run long enough to create an issue.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

I don't make the calls for DO so they'll have to chime in, but I see what you're getting at. One thing though is if some customers are pushing 250psi and they chose to set it to 200 for most, it still can be called a 250psi pump.

For DO, the calculator is how DO customers figure out what the average guy needs so I guess that ties the set 200psi pump pressure in for them.

I've yet to come across anything electrical/mechanical in life that when pushed to 100% lives as long as a fraction of that, but I'm not a pump expert so I'll take your word for it. :usa:

Anyways, let's get back to Preturbo and how it's working for those of us doing it. :cheers::yup:

This is a conversion thread and we've been sidetracked by the non believers. oon:

 

[Ttype6]

This is a conversion thread and we've been sidetracked by the non believers. oon:

You should know by now you'll never get these guys to hoist you up on there shoulders and throw a party in your honor. I would like to say thank you for bringing this 80 year old proven method of extracting the most power from a turbocharged engine to the Turbo Buick community. You've documented and posted your positive results. What else can you do. I think what they're doing at riceracing.com seems to be the best and safest way to do this that I've seen so far. The effectiveness of this was well documented in the 30s and during WW2. The laws of physics haven't changed since then. Anyone running a turbocharged engine and not spraying water into the compressor isn't getting all the performance from their engine that they might otherwise.


You will observe with concern how long a useful truth be known
before it is generally received and practiced on.--Benjamin Franklin

Of course, this is only new to the Turbo Buick community and you'll be known as the person who brought it to us. Thank You.

 

[Steve Wood]

You should know by now you'll never get these guys to hoist you up on there shoulders and throw a party in your honor. I would like to say thank you for bringing this 80 year old proven method of extracting the most power from a turbocharged engine to the Turbo Buick community. You've documented and posted your positive results. What else can you do. I think what they're doing at riceracing.com seems to be the best and safest way to do this that I've seen so far. The effectiveness of this was well documented in the 30s and during WW2. The laws of physics haven't changed since then. Anyone running a turbocharged engine and not spraying water into the compressor isn't getting all the performance from their engine that they might otherwise.


You will observe with concern how long a useful truth be known
before it is generally received and practiced on.--Benjamin Franklin

Of course, this is only new to the Turbo Buick community and you'll be known as the person who brought it to us. Thank You.

If you think this is new to the Buick community, then you have been in the deep freeze for the past 20 years....but, thanks for a great laugh:cheers:

 

[Grumpy]

so "Ttype6" what have YOU done :dunno: