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Resident Embraer Driver
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I put the stock dampners on my kirbin valve springs when I shouldnt have. The springs have dampners on the inside.
Will that hurt anything? I'm not inclined to take it apart again.

Joe

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1986 Buick Grand National
TA-49 Turbo, 009's, Hooker cat back, CAS V4, Art Carr 3000 stall, BGC 3'' Downpipe, ported elbow and all the other usual stuff.
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Resident Idiot
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I left the stock dampeners on the club springs. No worries.

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Stock Block, Stock Cam, PTE-52, Champion Heads, V4, MSD50's, TH DP, JayJackson 62mm TB, 16position MaxEffort Chip. 3680# with Driver
12.0 @ 116.5mph w/20psi using 17.9* timing

mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
 

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Anybody have a spare version of either of those springs? I'd like to test them for force, with and without a cup.

I'd be a bit worried with no published spec.s for Kirbans springs.

I'd fax or call him and ask for a force number for peace of mind, maybe he has had them tested with and without cups.
 

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Resident Idiot
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Or better yet, just figure out what kind of springs they really are. They aren't "Kirban" springs, they are the springs that "Kirban" happens to sell. I guess you need to watchout for coil bind as well. With the GSCA club springs, I used the bottom cups eventhough the instructions with the Kirban's tool said not to. Maybe his instructions say not to use the cups for a good reason with the springs he sells.

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Stock Block, Stock Cam, PTE-52, Champion Heads, V4, MSD50's, TH DP, JayJackson 62mm TB, 16position MaxEffort Chip. 3680# with Driver
12.0 @ 116.5mph w/20psi using 17.9* timing

mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
 

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I agree with Mike also.

Just knowing Kirban I would think it would be easier to get the force rating outta him than his supplier information.


I would think the GSCA would have tested theirs as well and someone would know whether or not to use the cups with them.
 

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I would be very concerned in case the are lt1 springs and already over 100#s.
 

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Resident Embraer Driver
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Update:

I spoke with Dennis on the phone today and he said the seat pressure is 90#'s. The
springs are manufactured locally for them.
He says,

"We sell a lot of them and our customers have never had a problem with them, some have picked up two tenths with our springs"

I dont know how much I trust him, I dont do much buisness with him.
He also said it would be wise to remove the stock dampners but neither he or his mechanics could give me a reason.

should I take them out?

Joe

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1986 Buick Grand National
TA-49 Turbo, 009's, Hooker cat back, CAS V4, Art Carr 3000 stall, BGC 3'' Downpipe, ported elbow and all the other usual stuff.
[email protected]
 

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Fuhgeddaboudit
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As per kirbans website his springs are tested as 100lb springs. With the stock dampners on you are taking a chance.

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ED BAKER
87-T-TYPE, PT54,MSD50's,Crane Billet Roller,JE forged20over,P&P Heads,Manley valves,Hemco 65mm& Acu65TB,V2 FM, P.I.9.5 -7disc,Jimmys Trans, [email protected] boost.10's soon
93 PARK AVE"SUPERCHARGED"
67RS/SS350 CAMARO
mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
 

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Resident Embraer Driver
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
100lbs advertised on his website, he said 90lbs over the phone, Sounds fishy to me, I should have just bought the comp cam 980's....

Looks like it will have to come apart again.

Joe

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1986 Buick Grand National
TA-49, 009's, Hooker cat back, CAS V4, Art Carr 3000 stall, BGC 3'' Downpipe, ported elbow and all the other usual stuff.
[email protected]
 

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If you replace them with comp. cams. 980's send me 3 or 4 of Kirbans' springs.

I will check them and mail them back to you and reimburse ya for the shipping.


This information should be available. If they are 90 or 100 I would pull the cups anyway.

I am in no way biased against Kirban, I ordered from him today as a matter of fact! I got a new cruise stalk for the GN.


"Bought" a discount coupon too.


All the other special deal stuff I wanted was already gone too.
 

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Kirban is a good, honest guy...but he does not know anything technical about the cars to any degree.

Anything over 90# scares me on these cars. I don't care how many got by with it. It is those that did not that I remember.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I think I will just leave the springs and remove the factory dampner cups.
We'll see what happens

Joe

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1986 Buick Grand National
TA-49, 009's, Hooker cat back, CAS V4, Art Carr 3000 stall, BGC 3'' Downpipe, ported elbow and all the other usual stuff.
[email protected]
 

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Nope, that theory does not wash...not sure what is going on but the lack of the cup will not make it tap.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So I went and got my dads good air compressor. Pulled everything apart again, for the second time took out the stock dampners, and put it back together for the second time, then I fired it up and all I hear is....

tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap

So at this point I'm a bit upset. I took the valve cover off and double checked the torque on the rocker arm assembely. it was good to go, I even torqued it up to 35lbs to see if there was a change, nothing still taps.

Heres my theory.
when I removed the stock dampners, they have a seat that the springs sit on. With that seat removed the installed hight of the spring has changed, therefor its tapping and I think I need to intall a shim under the spring. What do you think.

Joe

(Kirbin in going to get an earfull of me tomarow)


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1986 Buick Grand National
TA-49, 009's, Hooker cat back, CAS V4, Art Carr 3000 stall, BGC 3'' Downpipe, ported elbow and all the other usual stuff.
[email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It didnt tap with the stock springs and the cups, and the new springs with the cups.
A shim wont fix it?

Joe

------------------
1986 Buick Grand National
TA-49, 009's, Hooker cat back, CAS V4, Art Carr 3000 stall, BGC 3'' Downpipe, ported elbow and all the other usual stuff.
[email protected]
 

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How many lifters are tapping? All of them?

If it's one it isn't the cups, all of them I would replace the cups as a test.

I would also be ordering a set of Comp. Cams. 980's as well.
 

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Originally posted by Grannynational:
It didnt tap with the stock springs and the cups, and the new springs with the cups.
A shim wont fix it?

Joe


A shim increases the pressure...that is the reason we got rid of the cups..so the pressure would come down a bit.

Removing the cups could only cause tapping if the spring was not compressed enuf to have some tension on it. I am sure you had to compress the springs to put the keepers in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Yes, I compressed the spring a good amount to get them on.

I ran it with the vavle cover off, and they are all making noise.

Joe

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1986 Buick Grand National
TA-49, 009's, Hooker cat back, CAS V4, Art Carr 3000 stall, BGC 3'' Downpipe, ported elbow and all the other usual stuff.
[email protected]
 

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Resident Embraer Driver
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
So now that I think about it your right, they are all going to be the same hight because the keepers keep them at the same hight.
after 20 miles of driving could the cam be done for????

nobody around here has the 980's, I'm pretty close to going to napa for stock replacments.

Joe

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1986 Buick Grand National
TA-49, 009's, Hooker cat back, CAS V4, Art Carr 3000 stall, BGC 3'' Downpipe, ported elbow and all the other usual stuff.
[email protected]
 
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