Turbo Buick Forums banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just put a new engine in 400 miles ago and was going to put in Royal Purple at 700 miles. Is this a good idea or should I stay with non synthetic engine oil? If I can't use synthetic how many miles do I need to have on the engine before I can?
 

·
Resident Idiot
Joined
·
11,462 Posts
If you change your oil on regular intervals, just use the cheap dino oil. If you wish to spend more for some kind of peace of mind, use Mobile1 or some other synthetic. Of course that is my opinion and peoples feelings about oils are down right emotional!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
683 Posts
Never put synthetic oil in a fresh engine. The rings wiil never seat. Why? Synthetics are too slippery and this prevents proper ring seating. I ran my new engine first with non-detergent oil and drained it after 1/2 hr running, also the filter. Then ran it another few hundred miles and drained it again, and filter. I kept the rpms variable and boost under 10 #. Then ran "Kendall" 10w30 after that. I wouldn't run synthetic oil until the engine has about 7K miles on it. Oil in my book is the cheapest investment in keeping the engine running great. Dino oil is by far cheaper doing frequent oil changes. Gene

<small>[ October 28, 2003, 12:39 AM: Message edited by: ILBCNU6 ]</small>
 

·
Fuhgeddaboudit
Joined
·
18,613 Posts
I changed to Mobil 1 after rebuild around 2500 miles. I don't see how Royal purple will help you at $8.00 a qt. Mobil 1 or reg dino will work fine
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I think I am getting the picture that Royal Purple isn't all that popular. I only paid $5.50 a quart though. What is dino oil?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,284 Posts
Non synthetic.Stick with to at least 3,000 miles.
Most are good,but we tested Texaco Havoline and found it stood up to the testing the best.
 

·
Someone Crown My Ass!
Joined
·
7,081 Posts
Dino oil is standard oil....from Dinosaurs millions of years later.


I use Kendall 20/50. Love it! Change it all the time. I do run Mobil 1 in my truck but that is also so I don't have to change it but every 5k miles and it always looks good. With the fuel and alcohol I am dumping in the 3.8 Buick I feel it is better to change it often.
 

·
too many toys
Joined
·
1,206 Posts
Alot of people say to break in a motor with regular dino oil and switch to synthetic later.The reason is always the same-the rings will never seat.Yet Chevrolet and Ford both use synthetic oil(Mobil 1) from the start in some of their cars(Corvette and Cobra R).Do they know something we dont? :D
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
43,735 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
882 Posts
There's still an amazing amount of mythology amongst the general populace re: synthetic oils & lubricants.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,284 Posts
No mythology involved here.The car manufacturers and the oil producers used to say the same thing back when the synth's were first introduced enmass.
These are 80's style engines with 80's build technology.
The newer engines are all roller[hipo anyway].
The need for proper cam breakin is not there like it used to be.
Cams do tend to break rather quickly[sometimes not],but there is still metal to metal seating that goes on for the first couple thousand miles or so.
Remember again,these engines are an 80's design. :)
Besides,what can it hurt?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
43,735 Posts
That is the reason that we use moly disulphide to break the cam in with. I believe you will find that the manufacturers were using syn long ago in certain cars. :)

What can it hurt? Probably nothing, but, that is not the point....the point is that we continue to promote some things as valid when they are really the untested beliefs of the guy down the road that heard them from some other guy who also believed it.

Also, did not someone earlier justify the belief by saying the engine would use oil? I have not seen a cam make an engine use oil..... :)



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Fuhgeddaboudit
Joined
·
18,613 Posts
Here are a few letters to Mobil about Mobil 1 oil:

I found this info useful, however, I'd like to pass on some info regarding
Mobil 1. A friend of mine here in the southwest purchased a new Porsche RSR
two years ago from the factory. It was shipped with Mobil 1 in the engine.
Upon receiving the car in Houston, he was directed to contact the Porsche
factory immediately, prior to turning the car over at all. On calling the
factory, they instructed him to change the oil befroe starting the engine.
They advised against running the engine with Mobil 1, and said that they
had contracts with Mobil whereby they were required to ship the car with
Mobil 1, but did not have to instruct the purchasor to use the oil. The
factory advised him to run Valvoline 20-50 racing oil in his engine. He
asked what the problem with Mobil 1 was, but the company simply said not to
use it. I don't know what the reason was. Maybe Porsche had had some
failures using Mobil 1, or maybe it was a ongoing intercompany dispute, or
the racing division bucking the head office.... who knows. I just thought I
would pass this along. For my 2 cents, I usually go with what I know until
I can be sure that I'm not going to make an error, before I would try a new
oil product when breaking in an engine, particularly an expensive race
engine.

Steve C.


Subject: Mobil 1 for breaking in an engine?


>I believe that many of you will find the following mails between me and the
Mobil Corporation of interest. First comes the final answer of Mobil, then
the previous mails.
>
>Cristiano Rossi
>thpnma 02869
>
>----- Oprindelig meddelelse -----
>Fra: Mobil Oil <[email protected]>
>Til: Cristiano Rossi <[email protected]>
>Sendt: 3. november 1999 17:24
>Emne: Re: Mobil 1 for breaking in an engine?
>
>
> Thank you for contacting Mobil.
>Today's engines are built with much tighter tolerances and much improved
machining compared to the engines of 10 and 20 years ago. The old concept of
"engine break-in" involved two primary elements:
>
> Removing any metal flashing (called swarf) or abrasive material
leX-Mozilla-Status: 0009
>Allowing valves and rings to "seat" properly.
>
> Today's engines do not require these break-in periods. In fact, Mobil 1
has shown excellent control of oil consumption in the industry standard ASTM
Sequence III E test, which uses a completely rebuilt engine for each new
test run. This includes freshly honed cylinders, new pistons, and
>new rings (compression and oil control). The engine is exposed to only the
test oil after rebuild. The outstanding oil consumption control of Mobil 1
in this test demonstrates that the old "seating" issue is not of concern in
well machined engines. And don't forget that Mobil 1 is used as
>initial fill on Corvette and Porsche engines.
>However, if the engine rebuilder is using older machining equipment or
lower quality components, it can leave you with an engine containing swarf
or abrasive material inside the engine. In this situation, you would be best
served by using a short drain interval on your initial oil fill.
>Mobil 1 will still work in this situation, but it would be less expensive
to use a conventional oil for this first, short duration fill.
>
> If you have any additional questions, you may contact us at our E-mail
address: [email protected] or by phone at 1-800-ASKMOBIL.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cristiano Rossi wrote:
>>
>> > To the Mobil Corporation.
>> >
>> > On 13. july 1999 I sent you the following e-mail:
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------
>> >
>> > Mobil 1 for breaking in an engine?
>> >
>> > To The Mobil Corporation.
>> >
>> > I have a question that I would like you to answer. You can often read
recommendations like the following in the newsgroups etc.:
>> >
>> > >""One thing that you should be carefull of is the Mobil 1. It is
great oil
>> > >and will make an engine run better and last longer. The problem is
that it
>> > >is not suitable for CAM break-in. It lacks the correct extreem
pressure
>> > >lubricants for this purpose. I have been advised by Cam makers to
break in
>> > >about 500 miles with regular oil before mobil 1. Then Ring makers
recomend
>> > >2000 miles for proper ring seat before using mobil 1.""
>> >
>> > I normally use Mobil 1, and I have also used it for breaking in a
completely rebuilt engine. Is it true that it was a bad idea to break in the
engine with synthetic oil?
>> >
>> > Thank you in advance for your kind reply.
>> >
>> > ------------------------
>> >
>> > On 17. july 1999 you sent me the following reply:
>> >
>> > ------------------------
>> >
>> > Mr. Rosi,
>> >
>> > Thank you for contacting Mobil. Please accept our apologies for the
>> > delay in replying to your email.
>> >
>> > You can start using Mobil 1 in new vehicles at any time. In fact, Mobil
>> > 1 is the factory fill in Corvette LS1, LT-1 and LT-5 engines. And
>> > Mobil and Porsche just announced a new partnership that will also have
>> > all Porsche cars manufactured at the Zuffenhausen plant lubricated with
>> > Mobil 1. One of the myths that persists about Mobil 1 is that new
>> > engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. Current engine
>> > manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As the
>> > decisions by the engineers who design the Corvette and Porsche engines
>> > indicate, Mobil 1 can be used in an engine from the day you drive the
>> > car off the show room floor.
>> >
>> > If yoX-Mozilla-Status: 0009questions, you may contact us at our E-mail
>> > address: [email protected] or by phone at 1-800-ASKMOBIL.
>> >
>> > ---------------------------
>> >
>> > On 17. july 1999, I sent you the following questions (sent to the
address <[email protected]>):
>> >
>> > ---------------------------
>> >
>> > To the Mobil Oil Corporation.
>> >
>> > Thank you for your interesting reply to my question. I understand that
with the current engine technology it is not necessary to break in an engine
with conventional oil.
>> >
>> > I have breaken in a completely rebuilt Ford 351 Cleveland engine with
Mobil 1. The engine has now been running about 10.000 miles, only on Mobil
1. The Cleveland is an engine from the early seventies, and can probably not
meet the standards of what you call "modern engine technology".
>> >
>> > I have two additional questions:
>> >
>> > 1) Would it have been wiser to break in this old (but rebuilt) engine
with regular Mobil oil, and then change to Mobil 1 after the break-in
period?
>> >
>> > 2) If it is recommended to break in older engines with regular oil, can
the possible damage now be corrected by using a regular oil for a certain
period?
>> >
>> > I thank you in advance for your kind reply.
>> >
>> > --------------------------
>> >
>> > I have not yet received any answer to my last questions dated the 19.
july 1999.
>> >
>> > I would be glad to receive your kind reply.
>> >
>> > Thank you in advance.
>> >
>> > Cristiano Rossi
>> > [email protected]
>>
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
43,735 Posts
A search on the subject will bring up a jillion items on the subject-the majority by individuals who are saying that syn is too slick to allow the rings to seat.

Then there are some that claim that GM, et al, do a good job of machining and syn works okay, but, your machine shop might not be as good as GM and therefore you should be using dino oil to be safe for anywhere from 250-1000 miles so the teeth left on the cylinder wall will be rolled over properly.

My feeling is that you should be using a machine shop that does a better job than GM does, but, we have all heard machine shop horror stories. I don't think there is much published factual data that goes one way or the other.

Economically, RK is right. If you do as I do, and change the oil after cam break in (flat tappet) and again, a few hundred miles later in order to cut the filter open and look for unwelcome shiny bits of metal, then using synthetic oil initially gets expensive. Might as well use something cheaper rather than spending $50 in the first few hundred miles.

As Porsche dynos their engines before installation, I wonder what oil they used for the dyno runs?

I have always liked Valvoline 20-50 Racing oil-in fact that is what I put in my GN the last go round because they did not have Mobil One in stock in 15-50 at the time. I have switched back and forth numerous times and cannot tell the difference other than I might have about 1# more oil pressure after several hard runs with the Valvoline.

<small>[ October 27, 2003, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Steve Wood ]</small>



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Fuhgeddaboudit
Joined
·
18,613 Posts
I'm not sure which is better, an old machinist with 30 year old equipment that knows how to use it. Or a new shop with new equipment and the workers are still reading the instruction books for the machines. dunno Like Steve said It's cheaper to break in on dino then switch to synthetic if you perfer too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,284 Posts
Hmm,maybe I can shed some light here.
Seems the Syn manufacturers didn't used to use a lot of E/P additive on their engine oils.
They assumed that their oil was the be all,end all.
Wrong.
Most commercial syn's that I've seen are highly refined crude base stock.
Not true syn's.
They just get the syn' rating because they are so refined.
No our engines[not Porsche or Corvette] are not the stiffest blocks G/M ever produced,so unless your block is bored and honed with torque plates,I would allow a little extra leeway[breakin time].
The issue of the E/P additives was not really addressed until recently by the Syn' manufacturers.
We tested a bunch of different oils a few years back for our I/M training and guess what?
The Syn' did the worst on the test out of all the oils.
The conventional dynos lasted 1:20-1:35 before breakdown.
The syn we tested [Pennzoil,if memory serves] got to :15 seconds.
Huh!?
What happened to the syn's superiority?
A buddy of mine who was at the course a few weeks earlier said he spit on the wheel and it did better than the syn'!
Hmm.
IMO,the best thing you can do for engine break in and longevity is to run a good dino for the first couple thousand miles or so and get the "biggie" oil filter adaptor.
That's the way to fly.
JMHO. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,284 Posts
ULYCYC:
I'm not sure which is better, an old machinist with 30 year old equipment that knows how to use it. Or a new shop with new equipment and the workers are still reading the instruction books for the machines. dunno Like Steve said It's cheaper to break in on dino then switch to synthetic if you perfer too.
I would take the old machinist over the pups any day.
I wouldn't want them using my block as a test bed for their new equipment.
Come to think of it..I AM a machinist!
Damn,who'd of thunk it?
dunno
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top