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Resident Idiot
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
11.92 @ 111.77mph...

Well, where do I start?

It was a good night for most. Some people had traction issues with the track, and some people were popping head gaskets and hard parts in the early hours. Kinda spooks you when you are 2.5 hours from home, but hey I came to play...

Start the night out with 8gallons of 112oct. Figured I would start out with 20psi and 30* timing. I wasted the first few passes by trying to get the boost dialed where I wanted it with the new bleeder valve. It was a learning experience, but I got it licked now I believe.

Out of nowhere, the car went it's best to date.

1.667
7.584 1/8th
90.64 MPH
11.928 1/4
111.77 MPH


While I was very pleased with the time, at 30* of timing, the car sounded ragged. There was this aweful noise all the way down the track that sounded like a split crossover, or busted header. I did a few runs like this and took VIN7 for a run to try and verify what that horrible noise was. After doing a few 12.oh's and not being able to hunt down the source of the noise, I decided to take the car off the edge.

I switched back to the 20* timing that I am very accustom to tuning. The raspy exhaust sound, that sounded similar to a broken crossover pipe, or open dump... went away..

So, start all over.. make passes, compare the direct scan run to the timeslip.. ok.. Zero Knock.. at 22psi in 3rd.. Duh.. turn it up..

Made more and more passes. Strted hot lapping it, running out of time.

Man.... 20* timing 22-23psi...
I am getting the SAME times with 10* less timing...

Keep turning it up... ZERO knock still...
numerous 12.oh's @ 111mph...

Damn, last run gotta knock off an 11.something on 20* timing..

Didn't happen. Best pass with the 20* chip was:

1.676
7.653 1/8
89.82 MPH
12.025 1/4
111.35 MPH


DAMNIT! Still Zero knock. 26psi in 1st and 2nd gear.. then falling off to 22psi in 3rd. Car feels strong, no surging, no popping, and no strange exhaust sounds coming from the floorboards.

Unfortunatly, I plain ran out of time. Looking at my Direct Scan runs, I could have turned it up more. The O2's looked perfect, and there was only 1.2* on a shift. I had plenty of octane to cover some more boost.

All in all, I accomplished MY goal, and that was to get a stock turbo'ed car (ya, it has a .82 housing on it) into the 11.s. I am perplexed as to what the problem was with the high timing runs. It did run the fastest that way, but I don't feel comfortable, and I wouldn't run it again like that.

Thanks to Mark Pona for organizing the event and kicking it off.

Sorry to all of those who broke.


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Email Address: TurboBuicks.com - TurboCharged Message Board Turbo Buick Grand National, T-Type, Turbo TransAm[email protected]</A>


Current Combo: Stock Turbo, V4, MSD50's, TH DP, JayJackson 62mm TB, 16position MaxEffort Chip.
12.35 & 108.39 Street Trim.

[This message has been edited by Orlando_87GN (edited January 26, 2001).]
 

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Hey Orlando, That's a shame, Gotta update that sig now!!
You still running that factory turbo??
I still have mine with some mods (larger bell and inlet housing) Hooker down pipe with delta gate. Old I know but, paid for.

Also a Dutt I/C neck.
I was thinking of getting a .63 exhuast housing but don't know if it would be worth it versus just upgrading to a larger turbo.
Just thinking aloud so let me know your 0.2.
JS

------------------

Jason S. mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>

[This message has been edited by Maximum Warp (edited January 26, 2001).]
 

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I want a Z06
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6,024 Posts
Its about time you got into the 11s with the stock turbo you slacker


J/K Good Job! Give us details! Did you drive it home? lol....


------------------
Mike Schoenfeld
 

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Resident Idiot
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11,462 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
TTA89 - Yes, I drove it home. But others were not so lucky....

------------------
Email Address: mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>


Current Combo: Stock Turbo, V4, MSD50's, TH DP, JayJackson 62mm TB, 16position MaxEffort Chip.
12.35 & 108.39 Street Trim.
11.92 @ 111.77 Race Ready
 

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I want a Z06
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6,024 Posts
That was a quick sig change!

Give us the story!!

------------------
Mike Schoenfeld
 

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Resident Idiot
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11,462 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Details are above ! Scroll up.

------------------
Email Address: mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>


Stock Turbo, Stock Heads, Stock CAM, V4, MSD50's, TH DP, JayJackson 62mm TB, 16position MaxEffort Chip. 3750# with Driver
12.35 & 108.39 Street Trim
11.92 @ 111.77 Race Ready
 

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185 Posts
Way to go MIKE! That was a very interesting night and glad your car held together. My tranny is toast and now the search begins. Good to see ya and it appears a good time was had by all!
Later,

------------------
Jeff Scher
89 TTA Best of Both Worlds

87 GN Http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1780/

[This message has been edited by SPower6 (edited January 27, 2001).]
 

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43,735 Posts
I think that sound is just the normal sound caused by the higher timing.

Put some C16 in it and some more boost!


Trust in your knock alarm, egt, and avoid retard! Enjoy the sound. that's just the sound of power trying to get to the ground!

Sneak up on the boost gently, tho....don't wanta run out of fuel.



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Steve Wood

86 GN bought new, TE45/ported heads/CAS front mount/MSD50's/TH dp/210 PTE Roller Cam/9-1 c.r./65mmTB-Hemco plenum/2 3/4" exhaust/Eibach springs/GNX style wheels/MAXEFFORT 16 pos chip with gas out feature/venturiless maf

87 T-type-Stock short block/ported heads/red stripes/TE44/2.5" Hooker exhaust/MAXEFFORT 16 position chip with gas out

81 El Camino with GN drive train-basically stock 86



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

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Way cool, Mike! New you could do it!

I'll try the same "trick" in my GN this spring, but I doubt I'll have the traction...

------------------
Jay Jackson
(the 62MM TB guy!)
http://hometown.aol.com/ygettv8/myhomepageindex.html

"YGETV8" '86 gray T-Type 94K... high tens...?? (STILL "some assembly required"!) Girdled stock block, Stealth turbo, 20 row IC, 65mm "stock" TB, PI 9.5" 7-disc, Jimmy's Trans, P&P heads, 218/218, Hooker Headers, 3" D.P., HKS w.g., thumbwheel chip, and more... (ran [email protected] with the stock long block, DOTs, thru the muff, & on pump gas!)

'86 GN "Beater"... 137K driver w/ P&P stock turbo, 21.5 psi boost, K&N, 3" DP and ported elbow, 93 chip, 30# inj., Walbro 307, AFPR, new valve springs, alum. drums, 2.5" IC neck, 62mm TB/upper, and that's about it! Best ET: 12.61 (on 215/65 all season radials!); best MPH: 111.97!

'87 WE4 59K ... GNX wheels, 93 chip, ported stock turbo, 21 psi boost, AFPR, Blue Tops, Borla exhaust, K&N, alum. drums... 'bout it! [email protected] on 265/50-16 radial TAs on it's maiden voyage to the track!!
 

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Originally posted by Orlando_87GN:
11.92 @ 111.77mph...

Well, where do I start?

It was a good night for most. Some people had traction issues with the track, and some people were popping head gaskets and hard parts in the early hours. Kinda spooks you when you are 2.5 hours from home, but hey I came to play...

Start the night out with 8gallons of 112oct. Figured I would start out with 20psi and 30* timing. I wasted the first few passes by trying to get the boost dialed where I wanted it with the new bleeder valve. It was a learning experience, but I got it licked now I believe.

Out of nowhere, the car went it's best to date.

1.667
7.584 1/8th
90.64 MPH
11.928 1/4
111.77 MPH


While I was very pleased with the time, at 30* of timing, the car sounded ragged. There was this aweful noise all the way down the track that sounded like a split crossover, or busted header. I did a few runs like this and took VIN7 for a run to try and verify what that horrible noise was. After doing a few 12.oh's and not being able to hunt down the source of the noise, I decided to take the car off the edge.

I switched back to the 20* timing that I am very accustom to tuning. The raspy exhaust sound, that sounded similar to a broken crossover pipe, or open dump... went away..

So, start all over.. make passes, compare the direct scan run to the timeslip.. ok.. Zero Knock.. at 22psi in 3rd.. Duh.. turn it up..

Made more and more passes. Strted hot lapping it, running out of time.

Man.... 20* timing 22-23psi...
I am getting the SAME times with 10* less timing...

Keep turning it up... ZERO knock still...
numerous 12.oh's @ 111mph...

Damn, last run gotta knock off an 11.something on 20* timing..

Didn't happen. Best pass with the 20* chip was:

1.676
7.653 1/8
89.82 MPH
12.025 1/4
111.35 MPH


DAMNIT! Still Zero knock. 26psi in 1st and 2nd gear.. then falling off to 22psi in 3rd. Car feels strong, no surging, no popping, and no strange exhaust sounds coming from the floorboards.

Unfortunatly, I plain ran out of time. Looking at my Direct Scan runs, I could have turned it up more. The O2's looked perfect, and there was only 1.2* on a shift. I had plenty of octane to cover some more boost.

All in all, I accomplished MY goal, and that was to get a stock turbo'ed car (ya, it has a .82 housing on it) into the 11.s. I am perplexed as to what the problem was with the high timing runs. It did run the fastest that way, but I don't feel comfortable, and I wouldn't run it again like that.

Thanks to Mark Pona for organizing the event and kicking it off.

Sorry to all of those who broke.

Great job!! I have managed to get my 87 limited to 12.50 at 110 mph w/stock turbo and IC. CHIP 26 TIMING
 

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Resident Idiot
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11,462 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Update -

Thanks to my MityVac, I have found some new "boost leaks" after the turbo. The PCV isn't working, and there is a leak going to the boost gauge somewhere. This could explain the boost appearing to "fall off" to ~22-23psi in 3rd, down from 26psi in low gears....

The morning after Moroso, I pulled the radiator cap and a good amount of air came out. Coolant was low about 10oz.

After talking to a few reliable sources, my "raspy" exhaust sound with the high (30*) timing, was the heads lifting
. I almost learned how much timing was too much timing...

I don't think I blew a head gasket, but I do believe the heads may have lifted a bit.

The car is running fine though. It doesn't aquire anymore air in the radiator, and theres no oil in the water or vise versa.

I plan to do some intake tract mods before Sunday, and run the car in an all day test and tune.

I am sticking with my proven formula of 20* timing, and high boost with good fuel.

If you ask me, I say boost makes more power vs. timing.

When running 30* I went 11.92 (moderate knock ~5*)
When running 20* I went 12.02 (MAX 1.2*)

Take your pick...

------------------
Email Address: mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>


Stock Turbo, Stock Heads, Stock CAM, V4, MSD50's, TH DP, JayJackson 62mm TB, 16position MaxEffort Chip. 3750# with Driver
12.35 & 108.39 Street Trim
11.92 @ 111.77 Race Ready
 

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Nice job Mike. Patience eh? Kept chippin' away..Determination and persistance...and errr liftin the heads off the block...

Do you have any kind of check valve inline with your PCV valve?


------------------
RandyCustomShop
"Firechicken"
1982/86/87/88/89 Firebird
Turbo
11.31 @ 118.6 w/a 1.59 60' on 245/50 Nittos leanin' out bad
mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
 

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SCONE WIZARD...
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704 Posts
Good job Mike!

I wont know if my car will crack into the 11.90s for a few more months (track are closed till April..). I kinda doubt it will though...

Since my 12.20s, I added a 62 mm T body, modded plenum & spacer, 32 lb injectors, bought a stock I/C with the 2.5" neck and gonna throw my cold box on it, beefed up the back brakes for holding power and am going to go on a fiberglass diet..

Need to somehow shave off 3 tenths with this stuff


I WAS going to order twomore race chips to try with 30 and 32* timing... after reading your experiences with it.. I'm thinkin i'll stay at 27* - it worked well so... I figure with the bigger neck and cold box, I am hoping that 23-24 PSI boost and 27* timing will work great...

------------------
1987 Limited Turbo T,
12.28 @ 106 MPH w/a 1.62 60'
My 1987 Regal Limited Turbo T page..
 
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