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Some of you guys here might have heard from other people about my experience with my car these passed few months. I just want to let you guys hear it from me and know what really happened.

Ok, so About 4 months ago I take my car to Dan at National Racing and let him hear it, the car was makiing a ticking sound. My motor is tired and it's a stock motor that has gone 10.98 @124 in the past. So Dan suggests its a rod bearing or crank bearing that has spun (which wasn't the case) and that his buddy has a fresh short block for sale with good parts. So I take his advice and build the new short block with my heads (new valve seals, springs, valve job, magnaflux ect...)

I get the motor done at Nash engines and they told me to take it easy for 1000km because its a fresh short block, so I did that and do 3 oil changes withing the 1000km. Nash provided me with a 3 month warranty on my new engine. Everything seemed okay. I later find out that the cause of the ticking from my stock motor was from the lifters (two lifters were concave and collapsed)

So my motor is good, I broke it in putting 1000+km then I start giving it some boost, at first it was short bursts 5-10 psi and let off, watching the scan master the whole time, no knock. BLM's and TPS were good at 128 and .42.


I start giving the car WOT runs and set the boost for 19-20psi at full throttle ZERO KNOCK (alky on of course), my lowest 02 reading was 796 that was the LOWEST. I go for a sunday cruise on the highway and as soon as I got off and pull into the timmies I hear a loud clanking coming from the engine (not the same sound I heard before) I take the car home and just as I get to my street the oil pressure was low :crazy: . I put the car in the garage and don't touch it.

Dan trailers the car, pulls the motor and sends the motor back to Nash. I hear from Nash and they tell me every single bearing was toast on the motor. I ask them what happened and they said they are really indecisive on what/why it happened, in other words not sure 100%. They warranted the work. Nash added some more clearance to the crank bearings and I asked why and he said it was "more forgiving". I also hear from them that Dan was calling everyday asking when the motor would be done and for them to hurry up as he has "other cars" to work on, which I don't think is fair to the machine shop. Then Dan tells me he has found out the issue, he tells me my car is over boosting and I've leaned it out. He told me I was beating on the car so hard and over boosting it. He was so sure of this that he called me a liar and said there is no way I am telling the truth. He's been telling everyone that my car is over boosting and and that I killed my car. It is not fair to me and if I did over boost the car then there would be only one person so blame and that would be me for not paying attention and carelessness. I get a call from other buick owners and "word on the street is I'm careless and over boost my car." it's not fair to make me look like a dumbass and as soon as I heard that I had to post this up and clear the air for everyone. I've had my car for 6 years and have been reading and learning about Buicks non-stop in that time, I know cars I've been around them my whole life. I don't claim to have the fastest buick, I'm building this car to be a quick street car that I can enjoy and be reliable.


My motor is back in the car running, after going through this aggravation I hope some people read this and learn from my experience. Take your car to people who know what they are doing and actually care to set your car up properly and won't go talking **** behind your back.

This experience has woken me up as to all the drama that has been going on on the board lately. I can see why people are afraid to post. I will tell you guys how it is, I don't like b/s or people who exaggerate problems.

Oh p.s Dan also installed my alky control kit 3 years ago. He put the pump on backwards when he did and ruined it, I sent it back and Julio fixed it and shipped it to me and I put it on myself the right way. lol

Just posting this to clear the air and say my 2 cents. :cheers:
 

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fantasy tuner/investor
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From looking at the bearings you should be able to tell if they overheated or not, or had detonation. This would determine if it was a clearance issue or knock issue. If they used P or passenger bearings frome clevite instead of an H bearing or stock GM bearings they won;t take any abuse for long.
 

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OMG. Sorry to hear that. Hope your car is running better? . Buicks arent' about slapping parts together and then driving them. Important tuning etc must follow after installing and putting in a new motor. Does National Racing have quality control measures? Putting a pump on backwards?. Oh well . hard lesson learn't . Choose your shop wisely. I am thankful to guys like Jamaican Paul, Mike , Freddie etc. Who take the time to explain and help you out to prevent issues like what you have experienced. You should give Bill Boost a call. He has a very good proven track record of happy customers. He knows his [email protected]#% real good. Takes his time to diagnose everything properly the first time. Welcome to the joys of owning a buick. Don't worry . We have all been there and done that. LOL.
 

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OK! Who Farted Again??
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Martin from Nash has done at least 6 rebuilds for me over the years without any issues. All I can say is I Never Rushed Him in any way. Altho, one thing you mentioned does sound weird is that he told you 1000K before beating on it?? We have always had the understanding after 20 mins for a cam to break in (no leaks & go on a roller) but build some boost ASAP. Just 5 lbs is enuf as long as there are no leaks. I use file to fit rings so maybe he used something else on your engine? Still, 1000K seems crazy high since the rings today break in within the first few mins? Building some boost is mandatory right after it's cleared to go. Are you sure he said 1000k before boost??
Not that it matters regarding your thread but it sounds weird Martin would say that??
Are you sure it wasn't Dan who mentioned that?? :dunno:
 

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OK! Who Farted Again??
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OMG. Sorry to hear that. Hope your car is running better? . Buicks arent' about slapping parts together and then driving them. Important tuning etc must follow after installing and putting in a new motor. Does National Racing have quality control measures? Putting a pump on backwards?. Oh well . hard lesson learn't . Choose your shop wisely. I am thankful to guys like Jamaican Paul, Mike , Freddie etc. Who take the time to explain and help you out to prevent issues like what you have experienced. You should give Bill Boost a call. He has a very good proven track record of happy customers. He knows his [email protected]#% real good. Takes his time to diagnose everything properly the first time. Welcome to the joys of owning a buick. Don't worry . We have all been there and done that. LOL.
When I was a Newbie I paid dearly for using Ajax Engines. Both in Cost & broken parts but I learned after hitting a few brick walls! :yup:
The shop before Ajax built my motor as a NA 6 & said I was a LIAR that it was a Vin 7 car!! :rant:
 

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Your car.

Some of you guys here might have heard from other people about my experience with my car these passed few months. I just want to let you guys hear it from me and know what really happened.

Ok, so About 4 months ago I take my car to Dan at National Racing and let him hear it, the car was makiing a ticking sound. My motor is tired and it's a stock motor that has gone 10.98 @124 in the past. So Dan suggests its a rod bearing or crank bearing that has spun (which wasn't the case) and that his buddy has a fresh short block for sale with good parts. So I take his advice and build the new short block with my heads (new valve seals, springs, valve job, magnaflux ect...)

I get the motor done at Nash engines and they told me to take it easy for 1000km because its a fresh short block, so I did that and do 3 oil changes withing the 1000km. Nash provided me with a 3 month warranty on my new engine. Everything seemed okay. I later find out that the cause of the ticking from my stock motor was from the lifters (two lifters were concave and collapsed)

So my motor is good, I broke it in putting 1000+km then I start giving it some boost, at first it was short bursts 5-10 psi and let off, watching the scan master the whole time, no knock. BLM's and TPS were good at 128 and .42.


I start giving the car WOT runs and set the boost for 19-20psi at full throttle ZERO KNOCK (alky on of course), my lowest 02 reading was 796 that was the LOWEST. I go for a sunday cruise on the highway and as soon as I got off and pull into the timmies I hear a loud clanking coming from the engine (not the same sound I heard before) I take the car home and just as I get to my street the oil pressure was low :crazy: . I put the car in the garage and don't touch it.

Dan trailers the car, pulls the motor and sends the motor back to Nash. I hear from Nash and they tell me every single bearing was toast on the motor. I ask them what happened and they said they are really indecisive on what/why it happened, in other words not sure 100%. They warranted the work. Nash added some more clearance to the crank bearings and I asked why and he said it was "more forgiving". I also hear from them that Dan was calling everyday asking when the motor would be done and for them to hurry up as he has "other cars" to work on, which I don't think is fair to the machine shop. Then Dan tells me he has found out the issue, he tells me my car is over boosting and I've leaned it out. He told me I was beating on the car so hard and over boosting it. He was so sure of this that he called me a liar and said there is no way I am telling the truth. He's been telling everyone that my car is over boosting and and that I killed my car. It is not fair to me and if I did over boost the car then there would be only one person so blame and that would be me for not paying attention and carelessness. I get a call from other buick owners and "word on the street is I'm careless and over boost my car." it's not fair to make me look like a dumbass and as soon as I heard that I had to post this up and clear the air for everyone. I've had my car for 6 years and have been reading and learning about Buicks non-stop in that time, I know cars I've been around them my whole life. I don't claim to have the fastest buick, I'm building this car to be a quick street car that I can enjoy and be reliable.


My motor is back in the car running, after going through this aggravation I hope some people read this and learn from my experience. Take your car to people who know what they are doing and actually care to set your car up properly and won't go talking **** behind your back.

This experience has woken me up as to all the drama that has been going on on the board lately. I can see why people are afraid to post. I will tell you guys how it is, I don't like b/s or people who exaggerate problems.

Oh p.s Dan also installed my alky control kit 3 years ago. He put the pump on backwards when he did and ruined it, I sent it back and Julio fixed it and shipped it to me and I put it on myself the right way. lol

Just posting this to clear the air and say my 2 cents. :cheers:
Clear the air Anthony tell every body what Turbo, injectors and fuel pump did you have in the car at the time when you were putting 19 20 pounds through the motor when it let go, You have a 70 turbo 50lb injectors and some Typhoon fuel pump that was in the car when Salmon had the car, and how old is it , You did,t even know, And the gentlemen who sold you the motor ask you what injectors you had and you said 50s and he told you that was't enough, Also Nash engines said they had never seen every main and rod bearing smash like that and a piston pin was bent.So some one is tell B/S and its not me So get the story right before you tell it. One other thing Anthony go Pay your bill at Nash engines, Don't rip him off there's a lot of that going around.One other thing i told you to come back and i would set the car up, So Anthony stop telling B/S tell the truth.
 

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2 GN's = No money!!
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We have always had the understanding after 20 mins for a cam to break in (no leaks & go on a roller) but build some boost ASAP. Just 5 lbs is enuf as long as there are no leaks.
I fired up GN #1 on Monday of this week and took it for a ride and at hot idle it had over 20#'s of oil pressure on the mechanical AutoMeter gauge. I realize this is nothing impressive, but this engine was built and assembled in 1991 and raced EXTENSIVELY until the end of the 1995 race season (5 years of racing in the weekly points series) and we raced and hit boost shortly after the cam was broken in. 1000 km before boost sounds VERY odd to me.

When I had the transmission in GN #2 built I asked the builder how long I had to drive it before I could go WOT and he laughed and said as soon as I was out of the parking lot. He told me the transmission was not ever going to "get better" than it was at that point and to drive it and enjoy it, that was in 2001..... no transmission issues since and this car has since gone to Bowling Green and to Ohio to the BPG Nats a number of times without any issues.

If it is built and built right then break in should happen almost immidiately and then you should be good to go, just my 2 cents worth.
 

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Your car

Anthony did you tell every body that the puck on your down pipe is for a stock turbo and the hole has never been ported, so you guys think on that one. who was the driver?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Clear the air Anthony tell every body what Turbo, injectors and fuel pump did you have in the car at the time when you were putting 19 20 pounds through the motor when it let go, You have a 70 turbo 50lb injectors and some Typhoon fuel pump that was in the car when Salmon had the car, and how old is it , You did,t even know, And the gentlemen who sold you the motor ask you what injectors you had and you said 50s and he told you that was't enough, Also Nash engines said they had never seen every main and rod bearing smash like that and a piston pin was bent.So some one is tell B/S and its not me So get the story right before you tell it. One other thing Anthony go Pay your bill at Nash engines, Don't rip him off there's a lot of that going around.One other thing i told you to come back and i would set the car up, So Anthony stop telling B/S tell the truth.

Ok, what's a Typoon fuel pump Dan:dunno:? Anyways, what about the walbro 340 and racetronix hotwire kit I brought to you to put on my car? What happened with that? You told me my pump was good and bought it off me and said "Oh Selmon went 10's with this pump and it's fine". Yup 50's spraying dual nozzle alky, TurboTweak alky chip burned for my combo and a 70 turbo at 20 psi with 796 O2's with ZERO KNOCK. Selmon ran 10's I'm setting the car up for high 11's there's enough injector.

Listen you don't care about people and their cars and have a big mouth. It's no wonder no one talks to you or takes their cars to you anymore.
 

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your car

Ok, what's a Typoon fuel pump Dan:dunno:? Anyways, what about the walbro 340 and racetronix hotwire kit I brought to you to put on my car? What happened with that? You told me my pump was good and bought it off me and said "Oh Selmon went 10's with this pump and it's fine". Yup 50's spraying dual nozzle alky, TurboTweak alky chip burned for my combo and a 70 turbo at 20 psi with 796 O2's with ZERO KNOCK. Selmon ran 10's I'm setting the car up for high 11's there's enough injector.

Listen you don't care about people and their cars and have a big mouth. It's no wonder no one talks to you or takes their cars to you anymore.
Look under your car it's there.Salmon went tens did you see it? NO Hes running C-16 don't you get it.It will save your motor better than alky.
 

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Why have one ?
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Here we go again !!!!! MODERATOR... IF WE HAVE ONE ?? PLEASE LOCK DOWN THIS THREAD . DO NOT DELETE IT . BOTH SIDES HAVE GIVEN THEIR SIDE OF THE STORY. LOCK IT DOWN PLEASE BEFORE IT TURNS INTO ANOTHER CLUSTER PHUK !!!!
 

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OK! Who Farted Again??
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Using 20lbs of boost with Razors Alchy is fine as long as the tune is good!!
No matter 70 Turbo or 49 turbo. 50's are good injectors with the right chip & a proper flowing alchy system will handle that amount of boost but the tune for ANY Car must be somehat close. Otherwise things will go Boom!

Tim no need to just lock the thread so fast, but maybe now is the time they take this to PM's & enuf on the public forum??
When an agreement has been reached then Post the Results for all to see!!
I am NOT taking sides but something happened & some party has some responsibility to ADMIT to their mistake after this is resolved. :yup: **** happens & they party at fault should own up to it! Pretty straight forward IMO.
 

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fantasy tuner/investor
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When running alky any little blip on the pump, wiring issue, not being primed, internal leakage, corrosion, etc , will cause instant detonation. Too many variables to put the blame on either side. The pics of the bearings and rods will be the only answer to this mess. If the rods are blue in the big end it was an clearance issue, and the bearings failed from heat.
 

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Your car

If Eric burns a chip for twin alky system or any system for that matter in the program he takes fuel out for the alky system, so if you don,t have enough fuel and injectors and the pump is old what happens BOOM, Kid did you told me that you were just driving home and it start knocking and you also told me you did't put any boost in in the motor, AND now you tell everybody it's 19 or 20 and why is there all this burnt pieces of rubber all over the back of the tailpipes and 1/4 panels , Kid get the story straight.
.
 

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Your car

This is the thanks i get and the bull sh!t i get for just for doing a re&re on a motor, When the car left here the car ran fine , I ask one thing who was driving the car not Me not Martin and not the guy who sold you the motor not him, who's foot was on the gas pedal your's.How come the guy who sold you the motor John Pfaff was not mention how come you don't return his calls.
 

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Wow. I haven posted in here in several years but still lurked and after reading this thread i figure i might as well post. Where are the pics of the failed parts? Pics of bearings will show whether there was detonation. There is almost no mistaking it. Ive seen stock headed untouched engines that were "low boost" get pounded. Ive seen 800+hp engines with no problems. I see a lot of damage done to engines when the owners try and run 93/alky. Its not fool proof and there is little room for error. Ive never seen someone attempt to run a stock wastegate hole/puck with a T70. I cant see that working very well. I tried a te63 back in the mid 90's without touching the wastegate hole and it was a no go. It starting creeping really bad once it hit about 4500.
 

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North of Seven
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my experience

I'm not a regular poster on this board, but occasionally
check in because of all the knowledge that is on this board.
FWIW, Dan has always treated me great and any work
on my car has been exactly as promised.
I hope things work out for you.
Just my 2 cents.
P.S. Nobody asked me post here, just stating my experiences.
Cheers.
 

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Wow. I haven posted in here in several years but still lurked and after reading this thread i figure i might as well post. Where are the pics of the failed parts? Pics of bearings will show whether there was detonation. There is almost no mistaking it. Ive seen stock headed untouched engines that were "low boost" get pounded. Ive seen 800+hp engines with no problems. I see a lot of damage done to engines when the owners try and run 93/alky. Its not fool proof and there is little room for error.

As yourself and Dan point out,tuning with Alchy' to compensate for lack of injector/fuel system capacity can be tantamount to dancing with the devil.
I do remember Nick Micale mentioning a few years ago that if you detonate with Alchy,you most likely won't hear it nor will the knock sensor due to the softer burn nature of Alchy'.
Perhaps this is what happened here?
I've also been trying to find what the effects of Alchy' are on engine lubricants.
According to Jeff Hartman you need a more compatible lubricant for the stuff.
I guess Alchy' has a nasty effect on regular gasoline type engine oils.
 

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OK! Who Farted Again??
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As yourself and Dan point out,tuning with Alchy' to compensate for lack of injector/fuel system capacity can be tantamount to dancing with the devil.
I do remember Nick Micale mentioning a few years ago that if you detonate with Alchy,you most likely won't hear it nor will the knock sensor due to the softer burn nature of Alchy'.
Perhaps this is what happened here?
I've also been trying to find what the effects of Alchy' are on engine lubricants.
According to Jeff Hartman you need a more compatible lubricant for the stuff.
I guess Alchy' has a nasty effect on regular gasoline type engine oils.
Hey John,
I know your a LONG Way away from the meet on the 16th but maybe you can grab Big Mike & the both of you showing up would really help the Old Guys Credibility with the newer owners.
We can't let them have more bodies out there than the over 50 club!! :wink: :cheers:
 

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Hey John,
I know your a LONG Way away from the meet on the 16th but maybe you can grab Big Mike & the both of you showing up would really help the Old Guys Credibility with the newer owners.
We can't let them have more bodies out there than the over 50 club!! :wink: :cheers:
TBH,I remember a meet up at a restaurant a few years back that cost me 3.5 hours of wasted driving.
This meet up is about 45 minutes further East than that in just one direction,from the looks of it.
That's a LOT of driving for a Sunday morning.
*IF* it was somewhere up around North T/O or Mississaugua,that would probably be doable.
I do appreciate the offer though.
 
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