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hello all
I am new to this board but have been on the big mailing list for a few years
i have come to a time to select a intercooler for my buick
i have two stock ic's and was thinking about stacking them one on top of the other and making a huge stretched one what do you think?

also i have a friend with a ford powerstroke sitting in his garage which ill get from him if needed and make it into a frontmount i know some of you have those id love your imput for this. i would like to do this task on the weekend coming up thanks all in advance

slawek
az
[email protected]
 

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Lotsa G-Body Parts
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I've gotten a few from Mease Performance. There worth the $.You can send your 2 cores in & get a credit off the cost.I have one that takes the stock 2 1/2 & one that takes a 3" up pipe.It also comes with a custom shroud that is adjustable.I do get a discount on his parts if your interested e-mail me direct,Thank's Brian
 

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Originally posted by Bweavy:
I've gotten a few from Mease Performance. There worth the $.You can send your 2 cores in & get a credit off the cost.I have one that takes the stock 2 1/2 & one that takes a 3" up pipe.It also comes with a custom shroud that is adjustable.I do get a discount on his parts if your interested e-mail me direct,Thank's Brian
Curious.... How much do they cost? Not doscount price. Just regular priced.

I maybe interested in 1.
 

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www.magnabuick.com
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1) That's a good deal on the Precision frontmount. If you've got some money and want a frontmount, I'd get one of them.

2) That Mease Performance stock location sounds pretty sweet. Anyone have any pictures of it?

3) What version is that Powerstroke IC? The all aluminum version, or the one with the composite end tanks?

-Banning.

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James Banning Cohen
86 T-Type WH1
GSCA# 4817
Web site: http://banning.freeplace.net/

[email protected] MPH
(Best MPH & 60'= 117.3 & 1.54)

Mods:
PT51 turbo w/.63 housing, Ported iron heads w/stock valves, PTE 218 cam, Powerstroke IC, 72# injectors, ME 16 position, ATR 3" DP w/external gate, DelTrans 200R4, 9.5" Vigilante, Eaton posi, Hooiser QT Pro's
 

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Check under "Intercoolers" on a search engine.

It seems that the 'hot ticket' is what's called Extruded Tube. One of it's features is that it's supposed to take more abuse (LONGEVITY) than the ones that aren't. When I pay those $$, I want it to last a longggg time!

If Precisions was made with that tubing, I'd have one sitting here right now, if it was at that price. Whoever comes out with one at that price could lock up the market.

I won't get one however, until I know that it's ready to ship.

Until then I'll just stick with my 'ol outdated NON-EXTRUDED TUBE FM.
 

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J Banning sent you pictures Mease 1 1/2 stretch intercooler with 3" outlet
John

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JOHN HORDYCH
87 GN Ta49 36#, big mouth intake,9/11 TC,new interior,KB exhaust,test pipe,Boost a pump,340 walbro,IMM trunk kit,Basic mods all gauges,Turbo Link,new trans by Eric Shertz,Translator, Extender chip
,Keith Mease downpipe, and 1 1/2 intercooler,70mm TB
RJC power Plate,Dual Fans
 

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The problem with the Mease unit is that it is made with worn out, 16-17 year old cores.

Hard to spend money for something that is going to be prone to leaks and poor fin bonding, IMO>
 

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Check out my pictures of my ford front mount i just put in. It works great, looks even better, and i have absolutly NO coolant temperature change whatsoever, and im running no baffles or air directors to the radiator. i didnt have to cut as much as others either, as i just moved the intercooler a little farther forward. the frame stays the same, only 2 things you have to cut are the hole for the pipes in the core support, and the headlight area had to be cut a little. thats it.

instalation time was around 4 hours total.
www.insanelyquick.20fr.com/ICpiping1.jpg www.insanelyquick.20fr.com/ICfront2.jpg www.insanelyquick.20fr.com/ICheaderpan..jpg

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1970 Seamist Green GS350 30 MPG!!!

1984 black Turbo TType w/87 GN drivetrain. Stock turbo, ported stock intercooler, stock injectors, 17 psi boost. 12.9 @ 92mph Lifting.

New mods: 50lbs MSD & Max Effort 16 position chip, RJC power plate(thanks Jason) stock headers, Honda accord MAF pipe setup, export braced front bumper, homemade aluminum front air dam, etc.
Ford PS FMIC going in very soon.
 

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The problem with the Mease unit is that it is made with worn out, 16-17 year old cores.
Hard to spend money for something that is going to be prone to leaks and poor fin bonding, IMO>
What most peopke don't know is that the cores we (I work with Mease) use are thoroughly checked for cracks, holes and leaks. Each core is stripped of paint, bead blasted, cut open so we can weld, and thoroughly cleaned inside and out. Red Armstrong used to take a borascope to the original Action Fab stretch ics to see how clean they were, he was impressed.

Any pinhole leaks are filled with quick set epoxy. Any bent fins are straightend, and we then pressure test the final assembled unit to 15 psi static pressure (boost pressures are not static).

Worst case, aside from cores that have taken hits from the IC fan or other blunt objects (those cores we do not use)..a limited few cores we've had, of the several hundred IC's we've made over the years have oil residue in them. Overall, the majority of cores internals are in very good condition and the sealing silicone is perfectly intact.

As for the age of the cores, they are structurally sound despite the age and of all the cores produced today, the GN, GNx and TTA cores are one of the most efficient designs out there in terms of row/fin surface area on the outer and inner row sections.

A 15-row stretch with our ported big-neck flows upto 50% more than a bone-stock original IC. Our half-end tanks actually flow better than the original cast aluminum tanks.

We paint the ICs with 2 light coats of flat black underhood paint.

So far, with the several hundred Keith has made, all of them have worked exceptionally well in cars going as fast as low 10s. Jack Cotton has customers, who are likely on this board who can attest to that.

15 Row Stretch kit with Non-Adjustable Shroud

- Our current kits include a 3-position adjustable shroud similar to the on pictured, except that the lower portion car be swiveled up or down -



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Dan Goldstein
1987 Turbo Regal

[This message has been edited by darkfa8 (edited October 27, 2002).]
 

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Dan, the fin bonding begins to deteriorate the day the unit is built (1986-1987) and gradually diminishes in ability to transfer heat just like a radiator core does.

With regard to leaks, they may not leak when they leave you (I am sure they don't) but, they are still aluminum and electrolysis has been taking place over the years. I realize that they perform quite well but I believe they are too expensive for what they are.
Might as well as buy an unit with a new core for not much more money.
 

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Hey GS70350, just my opinion.......
I installed the Powerstroke IC as well, and it turned out a little like your install.
If I were you, I would make a small metal "L" bracket from the center rear facing bolt on your header panel to your IC.I ended up cutting my header panel support into 3 pieces, and kept some of the original support on the end bolts, with a L bracket supporting the center bolt.
If someone came up to your car with the hood open and (god forbid...) leaned on the header panel it would probably snap in half.
No one except you knows that the header panel no longer has any support.
JMO...........

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Best of 12.56 at 106.4mph, 1.75 60ft on pump gas/SMC alky
Stock Turbo/injectors/Ford Powerstroke IC.....
Car weight without driver 3640 lbs
 

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Steve I have to agree with you on the deteriation.Everything deteriates from day 1
One question I have for you how long does a stock I/c last?
I'm going to be a little biased here because I use Keith's products.I also supply him with some stock intercoolers.All of the ones I've supplied had to be in top notch shape.Good factory paint no visual deteriaton.I've watched them build a stretch a lot of painstaking time is gone into the core to insure there are no leaks.The factory mounting tabs seem to leak from the factory from day 1.The IC's are stripped of paint & double checked for visual defects.Keith repairs & as Dan stated pressure tests each one.Then paints.
Like I said I have a few of his products & used before I started selling.I would really like to know the life expectancy if you can give some input.You know I always respect your opinions.Thank's Brian
 

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It's really an impossible question as a lot has to do with the ambient conditions surrounding the unit throughout its life.

There is no doubt that the units work. We all know Red and others have been running stock core extended units for years. Numerous people have done comparisons and found virtually no diffence between extended units and front mounts until solidly into the tens.

Fin bonding deterioration begins the day they leave the manufacturing dock. I suspect that the heat transfer capabilities are down 25-35% by now as compared to the day they were built. On the other hand, from the performance results that we have all seen by Red and others, they must be well into the overkill zone sizewise as they still work when welded together.

Leakwise, just because they don't leak today does not mean they will not leak a month from now when a thin spot eats thru.

Even that is not a terrible event because a very high percentage of them may exhibit leaks when subjected to pressure and submerged in water. The pinholes are not likely to bleed enuf volume off to affect boost levels.

My argument is that it makes sense to pay a little more and buy something that is brand new and does not have 16 years of aging on it. Note that I said little and not a lot more.


These things are labor intensive and I suspect more work goes into rebuilding one that it does when starting from scratch with a new core. Therefore, it is kinda hard to drastically reduce the price to make them a really good deal.

Now, does JC offer one with a new core or is CAS the only source of new cores?
 

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Hello everyone....if this was the other board...this msg would be for sure deleted in less than 10 seconds


Yes, Steve....we would use new cores if the GOOD ones were cost effective and worked....at one time I priced out OUR cost on just the core for this intercooler through (cannot mention, sorry...but they were extruded tube/not spearco style) and for a base Qty of 100.....the cores would have cost us $550 to our door....thats less the 2-3 hours fabrication time we would have in just the intercooler, plus the shroud....and almost forgot the bump hose.....I'd have to sell the thing to MY VENDORS for $700-$775 and by the time you're done here...it would cost the customer in the $800 range....way out of the question...

The stock Garrett intercooler is one of the most effective designs we've ever seen...ambient and internal fin thickness, tube thickness, style of sealing (double protection
)hehe....all make it one of the best. I am comparing the stock core to the same size/thickness Spearco, Afco,and Griffin cores...which all make very effective cores, but for different applications...

I can assure you that if anyone has a problem with one of our intercoolers over lets say a 5 year period....I will repair it at no charge if shipping is paid.

take care, <KM> @MPE
 

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Hello everyone....if this was the other board...this msg would be for sure deleted in less than 10 seconds
Then why are you on the other board?


Seriously though.. thanks for speaking up. The stock IC's have always seemed to be some pretty impressive pieces being found on a production vehicle. I have seen some nice stretch IC's around (Mark Jacksons) and have always wondered how they compare to a V4 or newer style IC. The only real way to put this argument to rest is with REAL numbers. Like direct comparisons between IN & OUT temps of the different IC's. Which one cools the air most efficiently with the least pressure drop? Unfortunately I don't know of any information like this that exists and I wonder if the manufactures of these IC even know (or care). Without this information it's a shot in the dark as to which one is best for you. Kinda like compressor maps for different turbos not existing. We will never know!

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'87 GN - Stock Block, Stock Cam, Stock Turbo, Stock Heads, V4, MSD50's, TH DP, JayJackson 62mm TB, 16position MaxEffort Chip. 3680# with Driver
11.92 @ 111.77mph

'87 Mazda RX-7 w/GN Powerplant
12.37 @ 122.26 MPH
Visit : http://www.MisRed.com

mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
 

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I'VE LOOKED AT MANY FRONT MOUNTS AND JUST DON'T WANT TO WORRY ABOUT OVER HEATING ON THOSE HOT SUMMER DAYS. NOW IV,E BEEN GOIN TO KEITH AND DAN FOR ABOUT 5 MONTHS AND THEY BOTH HAVE TREATED ME GREAT, AND HEAR MANY GOOD THINGS ABOUT HIS INTERCOOLERS, SO I WILL PROBABLY GET ONE SOON. ILL LET EVERYONE NO HOW WELL IT WORKS
 

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I'm glad this isn't the other board. I'm drunk and an gonna play grand theft auto "Vice City" I know you all are jealous! Its cool. My only problem is their is no Grand National! later,
Wasted!
 

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I like both boards.


BUT over here I can say MEASE MEASE MEASE without fear of serious repercussions.


I can even say I own one too. Not the intercooler the elusive downpipe. Nice piece.

Okay back to your regularly scheduled intercooler program.
 
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