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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, I found a pretty good deal on a replacement motor for my powermaster (Which was making a noise, something awful). Motor replacement went fine. Bled the brakes. After an initial few minutes of test driving with brake light on, the light went away. The brakes worked beatifully. I had done a lot of work this weekend on the car(Both Upper control bushings, Both lower ball joints, Entire set of shocks and springs, New pads . . . hell, I know I'm leaving something else out), so I was finally pleased that everything was working excellently after working morning to night on saturday AND sunday. Well. after this initial euphoria, on the way back from dinner-getting, the brake light comes on when I turn the car on and the pedal gets really hard. I was e-braking back home for 5 minutes. The pedal seemed to be catching but not stopping the car. It wouldn't even stop the car if I went from Neutral to drive from a stop while holding them as far as they went, although they did SOME amount of stopping. I checked the fluid level and looked for leaks while pressing pedal. Nothing out of ordinary. It might be the linkage behind the master cylinder. I was too tired to even look at my car after parking it. I migh go back into the thing tomorrow right before work. Any Ideas guys? Would make me feel empowered for tomorrow morning. dunno
If I left any details out, let me know this post is getting mammoth.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Naw. I Packed it up the second the car was parked. I was plum beat. I have that linked as a favorite so I went to it when I got home, but since I can't test it right now, it'sup to tomorrow I guess. Just wanted to know if anyone had a similar problem where it worked fine for a good hour before it crapped out after changing things out.
 

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Poston's sells an informative book on the Powermaster system.

Here is the breakdown as far as fuse hookups go.
Indicator - 20 amp guage fuse
Relay - 25 amp A/C fuse
Motor off 30 amp Dome / Courtesy fuse.
Try checking these fuses first.

Hard pedal symptoms.
Pressure switch failure- Hard pedal all applies. Pump/motor not running.

Pump Failure- Hard pedal all applies.
Pump fails to run or runs continuosly.

Internal/External leakage- Pedal hard on most/all applies.
Brake fluid maybe present on outside/rear of unit.
Pump runs conituosly or cycles frequently (with or withoutbrake application).

Hopefully. MAYBE... this can help you out abit.
Post back with your findings or if you need more help.
-Matt-
 

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did you replace the grey switch on the top of the system? I think when you change the power master the switch has to be replaced as well. I concur with the last response, check the trouble tree. wink
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the replies guys. So far today only had time to re-bleed the brakes and check all the fuses. Getting the multimeter from work right now to check motor and switch in the morning tomorrow. The accumulator and switch were working fine prior to installing the new motor. Heck maybe they were the reason the motor was sounding so sick. An way to check the accumulator? I think I had air in the passenger side chamber of the fluid reservoir (Whitish micro-bubbly fluid as opposed to natural fluid color). . . on to day 3
 

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Sounds like an internal seal leak in the thing.

Might be shot. Prolly worked the old motor too much and it revolted and died.

That would depend on how many bubbles it was making.... mine did that for a few years and still worked okay. Pump ran way too long in the winter however and I got skeered and bought a Cardone.

I would completely depressurize the thing with the 10 full foot pedal applies. Then turn the key on a listen to how long the motor takes to cycle and stop.

Report back that time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It takes, from memory, about 3 or 4 seconds. I'm assuming that's the right sound.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
blah . . . more pain. Worked on it more this morning. Forgot the be-damned multimeter at work! Went through most of the diag tests though. Now, the brakes do stop the car, but you have to jam on that mofo to get good response at all. Plus the light is burning itself like a bad screensaver on my dash still. Looks like the accumulator might be at fault because the motor seems to work fine. There's nothing that seems to point to the pressure switch (Maybe I'll eat those words). There are no leaks. The freaking accumulator is probably the price of red regal t's entire conversion kit . . .

uzi POWERMASTER

<small>[ March 25, 2003, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Benny ]</small>
 

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salvageV6:
Sounds like an internal seal leak in the thing.

Might be shot. Prolly worked the old motor too much and it revolted and died.

That would depend on how many bubbles it was making.... mine did that for a few years and still worked okay. Pump ran way too long in the winter however and I got skeered and bought a Cardone.

I would completely depressurize the thing with the 10 full foot pedal applies. Then turn the key on a listen to how long the motor takes to cycle and stop.

Report back that time.
Internal leak check procedure from that book I got from Poston's. I'll shorten it up a bit but won't skip info.
1. Pump brakes until pump cycles and shuts off.
2. Turn off ign.
3. Push clear plastic hose (which is cut square at the end) around the return port in the booster section of the reservoir. PORT A (which is the back port on the passenger side of the reservoir.
If fluid comes up the tube. There is a internal leak.

To test for leaking check valve:
Press the tube around the supply port (PORT B is the front port on the passenger side). if fluid rises up the tube. There is a leak past the check valve.

The booklet does not specify whether you turn the key on or not after the hose is hooked up.
Since it doesn't say... DON'T DO IT! I can only imagine the mess it would make under the hood.

Also in this section is the following.

If, in normal operation, the pump runs for over 20 second without devoloping full pressure. And there were no leaks. Check the high pressure lines for obstruction. If clear. Pump is probably at fault.

HTH -Matt-
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Man. That's some helpful posting guys. I appreciate the time you're taking to type that up for me Matt. That's why every time I log off this board, I hug my monitor because it means I'm going to miss you all for the few hours I'm away . . . Yes. I'm a big time loser

Seriously, though. I'll check those things tomorrow morning. And by then I'll probably report some other malfunction. At which point ban me. Because it might get ugly . . .

<small>[ March 25, 2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: Benny ]</small>
 

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Benny:
blah . . . more pain. Worked on it more this morning. Forgot the be-damned multimeter at work! Went through most of the diag tests though. Now, the brakes do stop the car, but you have to jam on that mofo to get good response at all. Plus the light is burning itself like a bad screensaver on my dash still. Looks like the accumulator might be at fault because the motor seems to work fine. There's nothing that seems to point to the pressure switch (Maybe I'll eat those words). There are no leaks. The freaking accumulator is probably the price or red regal t's entire conversion kit . . .

uzi POWERMASTER
Accumulator Operation:[B/]
Make 10 brake applies with ign. off.
Check time from start time of motor to red light off.
0-1 = replace accumulator (PN 18014978 or 18018722 per ins. on install sheet.
2-7 seconds = No action required.
8 or more seconds = Follow corrective step #2.

Corrective step #2:[B/]
Accumulator operation test: (pump runs more than 8 seconds.)
A. Check for internal leaks in diagnostic procedure. (5 minute leak test) If it does not cycle within the 5 inute test. Proceed to step C.

5 Minute leak test:[B/]
1. Shut key off.
2. Pump pedal 10 times.
3. Turn key on.
4. Pump should run less than 15 seconds and shut off.
5. Wait 5 minutes and note if pump runs again.

(This will show small leaks that the PORT A leak test won't pick up.)

Accumulator Operation Continued:[B/]
B. (If pump cycles within 5 minutes. Use the hose test procedure I posted earlier.

C. Depressurize the system with 10 brake applies and ign. off. Fluid level must be within marks on reservoir.

(Subsections D. and E. refer to diagnostics using a specific tool. Since most of us don't have that particular tool. I will skip that part.)[B/]

1. Turn ign. on and check time of motor run to motor stop.
2. If motor runs less than 15 seconds Replace accumulator.
3. If motor shutoff time is greater than 15 seconds. Replace motor and pump assy.
Retest.
If run time is greater than 8 seconds. Also replace the accumulator.

Just for craps-n-giggles.......
Ohm meter test on pressure switch:[B/]
1. Depressurize system with 1o or more pumps with key off.
2. Using suitable ohm meter. All terminals should have continuity with each other. If not replace the switch.

Hope all this helps.
-Matt-
 

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FWIW Accumulators are $170 from Poston's.
Kirban's might have them as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Update:
Ok. Got Red Regal T's Vaccuum kit. Now I want to know how those of you who did ththe vaccuum conversion hooked into the vaccuum block. Pics would explain everything if you could. . . thanks.
 

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I have an 87GN with a vacuum conversion.The vac. supply is teed in by the PCV valve.Hope this helps wink
 

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You can buy the vaccum block from Kirban,as well as a few other places. :)
 

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Benny,

I'm sorry I got in on this so late. I would be happy to test the motor/pump for you, no charge. I know it is a little late but if you want to send the complete unit to me I'll check it out on our test stand just for your piece of mind!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hey Hank. Thanks a lot. Don't worry about it. It's ok. I've got 2 extra powermaster systems now though. I dunno if you's want those for anything. Email me if you need them.
 
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