[2blue87s]

well i bought and build a 4.1 l this winter.... and even bought a new timing cover and oil pump set up from e bay.......says n.o.s well have any of you had experience with the edelbrock cam with the 4.1 l my cam sensor wont drop in at all ,its binding....completely.with the edl cam,have any of you had this happen... i think its the cover... if you see them on e bay...the 2 i bought that were n.o.s.... arent.the cam sensor holes are off center... dont do it....somone please call me if they have run into this with the cam soo i know if i need to change the cam sensor gear or the cover is the culprit? 978 353 9152.... much appreciation Troubled Jim.... in massachusettes :dunno:

 

[earlbrown]

There's a tang on the bottom of the camgear that has to mesh with the oil pump shaft. It also has to line up with the cam gear and spiral down.
Have you tried jogging the engine back and forth to get it to drop in?

 

[ajt86]

yeah like earl said- that tang can sometimes be a pain. somtimes its easier to put the cam sensor in befor the oil pump. instead of spining one thing to line up 2 seperate things then you would beable to mesh the gears for the cam sensor and cam- then put the oil pump drive in.

 

[Orlando_87GN]

Sounds like there is an alignment problem between the front cover and the block. Are BOTH locating pins being used in the front cover. If not your ask for a disaster.

 

[2blue87s]

sorry for the delay....it was the cover.....i put it on my old eng,and it did the same thing... put the old cover on the new eng and it drops right in.... and when i got the cam sensor to fit by juggling the eng.... it bound soo hard that it was pushing the cam sensor out and couldnt move the eng by hand... not good.....i bought 2 of them for the 2 engs we are building.. and both of them did the exact same thing.....there are slight diffrences between them when put side by side... like how the seal is installed.... the new cover had a front seal... not from the back like the old cover...spent the weekend experimenting... but got it all back together sunday.... thanks for the tips!! and thanks for the call Dan...aka grumpy. :cheers:

 

[earlbrown]

Did you get that "NOS" cover from 3TK on Ebay?

 

[2blue87s]

i didnt check my e bay log yet but if it is the NOS with oil pump... that sounds like them.... both of them didnt fit....same issue... the seal goes on diffrent and the cam sensor binds...subtle diffrences...i will check tonight and post who they are from... because no offense... there is no way i got the only 2 flukes ya know? they all must be wrong... :rant:
and now im probibly out 350.00 for the pair because i bought them over the winter stock piling my stuff for the builds..AND NOW IM SURE ITS BEEN TOO LONG TO RETURN...HOW MUCH IS SCRAP ALUMINUM WORHT THESE DAYS?

 

[earlbrown]

Practally worthless. I've been researching trying to find a brand name for a cover that's good for us to rebuild.
I got the last GM cover from that guy about a year ago (when I wrote my oil pump/timing cover article).
Now his "NOS" covers aren't GM anymore and he wouldn't tell me what namebrand they are. He also wouldn't leave me feedback untill I left it for him first (That's really pisses me off too. That alone would keep me from buying from him again).
Last week SteveV posted that he was enlarging the oil hole to 1/2 and went through the side of a Silver Seal cover so I might order an Elgin sometime soon to experiment with.

 

[Steve V]

Earl it was a clevite cover from Napa. I got it welded up. Haven't installed it yet. But I will,my idle pressure is lower than I like it(15-20 psi with 15-40)but my other pressures are good. So I susupect it's the pockect clearence which is .002 larger than the new cover. Against my better judgement I also used a HV kit because of this. My crank specs are .0015. Last motor I built just like this one in April was about 25 psi with 10-30 and a stock pump. :6:

 

[2blue87s]

that sounds like the guy....definatly....DO not buy from him... all set.... i have a good torch and i think im taking up metal sculpting....after all this building im feeling artistic,or is it autistic? :headbang: my turbo is in and 60 lb injectors too...friggn yippeee.... im dieing to let er rip... :3gears: the oil pump is a high volume one tho.... and from what i read not reccomended...is that because it can sump out the pan?whats the story with those?

 

[Ormand]

the oil pump is a high volume one tho.... and from what i read not reccomended

Some people have had problems with high volume pumps- the theory is that the pump puts more load into the front of the cam, causes the cam bearing to wear faster, or the pump drive gears to wear faster. It's pretty obvious that a higher volume pump, and/or a higher pressure, will put more load on the drive. But how much of a problem is that? REAL hard to put a number on that.....

 

[2blue87s]

so,run a thinner oil with the high volume pump... i only drive the car like 3000 miles a year..and this year will be the real first time beating the tar outta it... had converter problems last year...everything is new and fresh...soo watch the cam gear and what else?

 

[Steve V]

If nothing else the HV waistes HP, with a new cover and proper specs inside the engine it is not needed. But if you use an old cover I'd use it. I also use TA cam bearings which are harder than regulars. and have smaller oil holes sending more oil downstairs instead of to the valves. :6:

 

[Orlando_87GN]

It's a known fact that the oiling system in the Buick is below par. It's odd that everyone hates the hi-volume kits seeing how they actually provide some more oil volume to the motor. Afterall it's the same pump gears as what the Buick 455 motor uses and almost the same front cover. Should all of the 455 users 'upgraded' to the smaller pump gears of the 3.8 so their cam bearing doesn't 'wear out' ?? Do they have oiling problems like we seem to be plagued with?

I haven't had any problems with using the hi-volume kit and I think they are perfectly wonderful in a motor that might have bearing clearances anywhere over factory specs. Then again I seem to have great success with plugging the oil bypass valve as well. :usa:

 

[2blue87s]

oon: :uzi: oon: :weed: well to add insult to injury... i got the motor together and running last night... oil pressure was crazy erratic... and LOW...
and once running to break in the cam... cant shutit off... soo kept a good eye on it... had oil where itneeded... the friggn pump was way out of spec.. this cover just keeps biting me in the ass..sooo i pulled apart the cover the pump was .009 thous out.... thats it.. but man what a diffrence...put the regular oil pump in as well and re shimmed it... had 30 lbs at idlehot...sooo its off to the races... hopefully some slips next weekend... FRIGGN COVERS.....
i have my old cover and pump (was a recent replacment) and wasted 190.00 bucks... not alot but the time it took to repair that TOOLS bad work... killed me.

 

[STOMPN 6]

Just for general information you can get a front timing cover from AutoZone they don't keep them in stock at their stores but can get them in one day.

They are the Pioneer brand and the part number is 500231 price is $92.50 plus tax.

No need to order from ebay

PS, I did the mods to the front cover as earlbrown suggested in his thread and didn't have any problems. :headbang:

 

[Wizard]

bad cover

I bought a front cover from Postons and had the same problem.After lots of measuring and arguing that I was doing everything right it turns out the bore was off center and the gears would bind.I sent it back and they confirmed that was the problem and gave me a refund.They said the checked invintory and had others bad also.I went to the chevy dealer by my house and they got me a g.m. one and it was 40 $ more than postons.It had the old style oil seal but fit perfect.....best 40$ i've spent on the whole rebuild.

 

[STOMPN 6]

I bought a front cover from Postons and had the same problem.After lots of measuring and arguing that I was doing everything right it turns out the bore was off center and the gears would bind.I sent it back and they confirmed that was the problem and gave me a refund.They said the checked invintory and had others bad also.I went to the chevy dealer by my house and they got me a g.m. one and it was 40 $ more than postons.It had the old style oil seal but fit perfect.....best 40$ i've spent on the whole rebuild.

What was the total cost of the cover from g.m. after you added the $40 to the cost of the poston's cover? :dunno:

 

[earlbrown]

I just found one on Postons site and they want $119 for it. A year ago wholesale pricing from GM was $260 for a front cover.

 

[Steve V]

Got a $180 wholesale price from work 2 weeks ago on the GM cover.

I 'd be afraid to go Autozone around here,the people that work there are STUPID!!!