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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, so a lot of people must be aware of all the new energy options. Whats up with the E85? Obviously its 85% ethanol....hence the name. I don't know too much about it, besides colder starts and slightly worse gas mileage. I know the octane is higher, but the burn isn't as powerfull, or somthing like that. It has less of a burning durration, if that sounds right. Again, my stats may be incorrect, but they are close enough to have a discussion about it. If this E85 picks up, will my car have a future? I know these cars are proven to run good on alcohol injection, but what about alcohol drinking;) I have heard about people doing conversions, but with no so good results. Lets hear what everybody thinks about the possible future of the automobile, and our Bad Ass Buicks! :6: :usa: :6:
 

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You can run it regularly,if you don't mind eventually replacing your whole fuel system.
That high a percentage of alchohol will eat up everything.
 

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IT's definatly possibe, but not economical IMO. General rule is you need 20% more fuel at cruise and 40-60% more fuel at WOT to get the same power with e85. So if you were maxing out your 50lb injectors with your current setup. You'd need 100+lb injectors and the means to feed them to make the same power with E85.

Also needed would be a huge fuel pump or 2, larger fuel lines that can handle the alcohol and supply the fuel. Assuming you could do all that you'll be filling up your gas tank close to twice as much as you do now. So the "low cost" of E85 isn't really just. Because it takes almost twice as much fuel to make the same power as regular fuel.

Now with all that said U could make tons of power on the stuff and not worrie about detonation.

Heres a good link

http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/e85dyno.php



:usa:
 

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Growing my Mullet!
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Do some reading over at Turbomustangs.com - a few guys are making big power with.

Fuel system doesn't need alot of upgrades to make it compatible with the fuel. Ethanol isn't corrosive like Methanol. The biggest thing is - it cleans everything, and all the trash will clog the pump, filter, and injectors. I'd replace all the rubber with new or with braided s/s line.

E85 also has more BTU's than Methanol so you don't need 50% more - you need like 20%-40% more. The guys at Turbomustangs find they make the most power @ normal gas AFR's.

http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/index.php?topic=47094.0
 

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e85

been mixing it with 93 for awhile now 20% on a fill up runs great no knock.
for some reason with 93 still getting small amounts of knock, with mix no knock. also, i believe it will only become damaging if water gets into system.
 

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The federal gov'mnt had some GNs set up for ethanol, back when the cars were available new. They did modify the fuel system, but they were not trying to max the power, so they didn't go as big as they should have. The "experiment" ended, five or six years ago, and the feds sold the cars. They were in Oak Ridge, Tenn- don't know why. Maybe the guys at Oak Ridge National Labs were doing the testing.
Two things to consider- one, ethanol has much less energy per gallon than gasoline. Only about two-thirds as much. So, for an equivalent power output, you have to burn three-halves as much, or 50% more. Thus bigger injectors, bigger lines, bigger pump, less miles per tank.
Second, it IS corrosive. Read evaluations by "neutral" sources. Popular Science, Popular Mechanics are much more unbiased than Archer-Daniels-Midland, or one of the "green" orgs that promote all alternative fuels. So it may cause some problems with fuel system components.
 

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True it has lower btu content, but at a 9:1 stioch a/f you can get more available btu's buy using more fuel. It has much less surface tension than gas making it easier to atomize, Plus it has a much higher burn efficiency, more controlled flame front propogation(resistance to detonation) and greater latent heat evaporation to cool the charge. This all adds up to more power than gas. It can even achieve better than gas a/f ratio's if tuned right with the proper cylinder head design. And if the proper additives are added it is no more corrosive than gas.+1 for the ethy...
 

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This is a good discussion and I am all about alternative fuels seeing how gasoline is too expensive any more. An important factor of any fuel is going to be availability so where can you even buy the stuff?
 

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Orlando_87GN said:
This is a good discussion and I am all about alternative fuels seeing how gasoline is too expensive any more. An important factor of any fuel is going to be availability so where can you even buy the stuff?
Here in wichita we have a QuikStop gas station that sells it. About 18 miles from my house. It's just not practical. I'd need 180lb injectors 1/2 inch fuel line and dual walbros, and stand alone ecu or possibly a custom chip? (noone seems to make one though). Seems like to much of a PITA to me. :2cents:
 

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Orlando_87GN said:
This is a good discussion and I am all about alternative fuels seeing how gasoline is too expensive any more. An important factor of any fuel is going to be availability so where can you even buy the stuff?

Hurlburt Field
Building 90043
Hurlburt Field, FL 32544
850-884-7374
View Map
Private facility. No public access.

Kennedy Space Center
3rd St & Ave C
Kennedy Space Center, FL 32815
321-724-0641
View Map
Private facility. No public access.


http://www.e85fuel.com/database/locations.php?state=flFlorida

FWIW tough that site isnt always right there is a station right by elkton in maryland that sells e85 which is not listed on the site. Do some reading on turbomustangs and youll see it does not reguire as much as your thinking :dunno: When I had the heads and cam motor in my car with 83s I was runing e85 without using that much more fuel then regular 93. Like I said tough do some reading on turbo mustangs and hear from guys who actually used it not from people spreading myths :6:
 

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Growing my Mullet!
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VxTurboxV said:
Here in wichita we have a QuikStop gas station that sells it. About 18 miles from my house. It's just not practical. I'd need 180lb injectors 1/2 inch fuel line and dual walbros, and stand alone ecu or possibly a custom chip? (noone seems to make one though). Seems like to much of a PITA to me. :2cents:
You wouldn't need 180lb injectors unless you want to make 1000hp.

83lb injectors and a good pump would supply 500+hp just fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Wow, I didn't think this many people would have commented on it already. Glad to see other people are interested so they can put some knowledge out about this stuff. I'm sure once it gets more widespread the technology will only improve. Think about how big the engines were to make power from gas back in the day. Us Buick guys had the dinky engines. Now look at the power thats gonna come out of that little 2.0 liter GXP. Now thats a tiny little buggar. I'm sure we will perfect this alcohol fuel to its highest efficiency. :yup:
 

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True it has lower btu content, but at a 9:1 stioch a/f you can get more available btu's buy using more fuel
The BTU content is about 50% lower. You can run it richer- in fact, you have to run it richer, because stoich is much lower- but not rich enough to cover that 50%. The cooling effect is useful, but comparing the capability of a special ethanol engine is hardly an apples-to-apples comparison. Not unless you list those service stations that will sell it, and will also completely redesign the cylinder heads, "while you wait". And just as soon as someone figures out how to stop it from sucking water out of the air, THEN you can say it "is no more corrosive than gas". Until then, it won't be compatible with the fuel systems of most vehicles. The economics are another whole subject- which would involve many complex government subsidies. As I said before, DON'T believe all the stuff that's on the pro-ethanol web sites, and in their literature. It's about as accurate as the EPA gas mileage figures.
 

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so how would it work with my carb/turbo? great disscussion by the way i've been wanting to do some research on this fuel!! :cheers:
 

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tony moore said:
so how would it work with my carb/turbo? great disscussion by the way i've been wanting to do some research on this fuel!! :cheers:
Don't even think about it. :)
 

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hey you cant tell me what to do! :D did you think you were talking to zap? :dunno: :cool: wait zap's turbo car doesn't use any gas!! sorry!! :cheers:
 

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LOL!
I tried alcohol enhanced fuel years ago in my 81' Cutlass[267 V8] and the carb gaskets started to leak after three months.
A rebuild and all was fine.
I've heard reports of the alcohol eating away at the fiberglass linings of gas station tanks.
The resin gets in the fuel system and gums it up.
Go figure.
 

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thanks for the reply,i dont need that! my car sits alot more than it is run!!
 
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