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aka: mOtOrHeAd MiKe
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The two-speed idle (TSI) tailpipe test directly measures hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide that exit the tailpipe. This test will be used for the diminishing population of older vehicles with a model year 1988-1997 to ensure that grossly polluting older vehicles continue to be identified and repaired.

By 2013, approximately seven per cent of vehicles in Ontario will be tested using the two-speed idle test method. Every year, there will be fewer and fewer of these vehicles on the road, and their total emissions impact will continue to decline.
I seriously don't see the problem? Any modern car with modifications to improve power can remain emissions compliant. In fact you can remain fully compliant and have 5, 6, 700hp these days with cats and all. Hell I can go to Ford tomorrow and order a 670hp GT500 and still emit nothing of concern.

I have also 'heard' that a picture of the engine compartment has to match the EPA file or fail.
Any thing newer than a 1997 tha is modified is screwed.
Just slip the guy a $20. ;)

As I have stated in the past, over the many years I have been here, you just have to be smarter than the tech and hide your work well. If you want to whine and complain, like Norbs does, I am sure there are plenty of people who will listen over a cup of coffee while you sit together on someone's couch. Just to be clear: Ron, I am not directing this at you I am simply reacting to the typical responses I see on this subject. Thanks for keeping us informed!
 

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Interesting.
The new equipment is more expensive and invasive than the old stuff ... ask Al,Ron.
Now the computer rats you out.
What comes out the tailpipe doesn't matter anymore,from the sounds of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Exactly John.The two speed idle test only affects 7% of vehicles and will decline as years pass Its the 97 up cars that have learning ability that will have the problem.It can take up to 2 months to erase and relearn.

And all the tester can do is plug in and all info goes directly to drive clean.

According to Geno if there are aftermarket parts identified its a fail.
If any electronics have been modified = fail.
The new cars have so many sensors now it will be almost [not impossible} to cheat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Exactly John.The two speed idle test only affects 7% of vehicles and will decline as years pass Its the 97 up cars that have learning ability that will have the problem.It can take up to 2 months to erase and relearn.

And all the tester can do is plug in and all info goes directly to drive clean.

According to Geno if there are aftermarket parts identified its a fail.
If any electronics have been modified = fail.
The new cars have so many sensors now it will be almost [not impossible} to cheat.

If you want 5-600 hp they want it to be clean and gov has control over factory built cars.Big bro doesn't want us modifiying emmissions.
 

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And we have dicussed this before but is possible to track a vehicle without it being "plugged in".
The sad part is that they are giving the mechanics more "teeth" to make sure that the "necessary" repairs are done before they'll give you a pass for your sticker.
 

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Perhaps a separate "Race" ECM just for that purpose. No doubt security thingies would need to be bypassed in such ECM.
 

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Perhaps a separate "Race" ECM just for that purpose. No doubt security thingies would need to be bypassed in such ECM.
Good luck.
Ever try to synch' the mileage of the BCM to the PCM on a late model car?
Change the PCM and they know.
 

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aka: mOtOrHeAd MiKe
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I couldn't disagree more about what could potentially be snuck under the emissions radar. I say this because I do a lot of late-model tuning with our LSX powered cars. Attached is a screen shot of just a few of the hundred(s) of DTCs that you can alter to trigger or not trigger the SES if you have the right hardware/software (hell you can turn off your SES altogether). It is HIGHLY unlikely that Drive Clean will have the ability to scan the flash memory of EVERY car on the road, much less have a database of EVERY flash tune to come out of the factory in a given year - depending on recalls or updates at the dealership. I know GM can detect variances in when a PCM/VCM/TCM was last altered, and they can compare it to what they have on file to see if it is valid. I highly doubt that we are going to see the same here.

But, who knows? :dunno:

Also attached is a screen shot of some of the self diagnostic test information that PCM/TCM runs on critical sensors related to emissions etc.

I'd like to also point out that as capable as modern cars are, they don't have the capacity to see beyond what any given sensor is telling it. It is easy enough to jam a resistor or voltage simulator in place of a sensor. So I will continue to maintain that any system can be broken or fooled with a little dedication.

At the end of the day it is your responsibility to ensure that your car runs correctly... as there is no "right" to own a car if you are in violation of the law and fail to comply.
 

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I know GM can detect variances in when a PCM/VCM/TCM was last altered, and they can compare it to what they have on file to see if it is valid. I highly doubt that we are going to see the same here.

But, who knows? :dunno:

Think they may get access to the OEM databases?
Naw,especially if the OEM's are going to use the info to weed out abusers.
Whoopsy,you altered your car from stock and caused a problem that only a dealer installed part can cure.
It may even get the point the dealer will have to certify your car as "untouched" to get a retest done.
Think they won't cooperate?:yup:
 

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aka: mOtOrHeAd MiKe
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Regardless if it happens or not - it is going to have to be easily applied for the average shop tech to do. Green good, red bad.
 

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Regardless if it happens or not - it is going to have to be easily applied for the average shop tech to do. Green good, red bad.

Computers will see to that.
The new testing equipment is more expensive than the dynos'.
Shops are actually opting out due to the higher costs of leasing the equipment.
I do hope your assessment is right though,otherwise something as simple as a back pressure change from an aftermarket exhaust designed for your car could cause a failure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Regardless if it happens or not - it is going to have to be easily applied for the average shop tech to do. Green good, red bad.[/QUOTte


But but all the average tech does is plug your car in.All the infomation goes directly to drive clean computers to pass or fail.The tech has NO say.
They are trying to prevent what you are suggesting.

Wether or not they succeed is the??????????????.
 
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