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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, we've all seen the DIY Alkie inj. SO.... Where's the DIY propane? It couldn't be very hard to make an easily adjustable/tuneable kit. So lets put our heads together and create one. Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks
~Adam
 

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I've been looking for a high presssure propane regulator. Most of the ones I've seen in catalogs only go to 50 PSI on the low pressure side. I've got my welding supplies vendor looking for a higher pressure one. No word back yet. You can buy a 12 VDC propane solenoid valve at marine supplies stores. Could probably find one at a RV place also. I'll let you know if I find a regulator.
 

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Yes, because the people who spent the time coming up with the system to begin with shouldn't make any money off of it.

Good luck on your DIY project. I could not find any "off the shelf" parts that were suitable for my safety/performance concerns. Maybe you'll have better luck. Just be sure to make safety your main concern.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
JayC
[QB]Yes, because the people who spent the time coming up with the system to begin with shouldn't make any money off of it.

QB]
And if one person spends the time to make a kit, I'm sure another person couldn't ever possibly make one better or improve upon the design.

Half the fun is making things yourself for me. Nothing personal against all those who have already done so.

So why can't an "off the shelf" pressure regulator for a shop air compressor work?
 

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Jay Carter put a lot of research and development in his system. Safety seems to be his one of his main concerns. Read some of the threads on the other board. Propane is not a direction I would personally go. But If it was I would use Jays unit and not take a chance of blowing myself and others up to save a few dollars..
 

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JayC
[QB]Yes, because the people who spent the time coming up with the system to begin with shouldn't make any money off of it.
QB]
Propane injection has been around for a long time. I can't see a DIY kit infringing on the Propain kit. It seems to me the selling point of propain is the control center (and convenience). I would guess that most DIY kits would not be as sophisticated. Tank, regulator, solenoid and a simple pressure switch. If people start copying the command center, then I think they would be violating some intellectual property rights.

<small>[ March 28, 2003, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: b4black ]</small>
 

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Jay,

I personally would not consider using components not specifically intended for use with gaseous propane. (i.e. a shop air regulator- BAD IDEA! nono ) There are DOT approved propane solenoid valves readily available as I'm sure you know. I would not fault anyone who wants to buy one of your kits. I have no doubt it's the best kit out there and I'm sure most people would prefer to buy the components as a system instead of piecemeal. I was planning on doing a DIY alcohol system this year but the cost to do what I want is getting pretty high. I have no problem with you making money off of your system. I hope you make a pile of it. You have taken a bussiness risk and you deserve to reap the benefit of that risk. Personally, I can't afford one right now. I have NO interest in selling anything I come up with in my garage. I would not recommend ANYONE building a DIY propane kit unless they KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING with regard to safe design and installation. nono Personally, I believe I can do it CORRECTLY and SAFELY without CUTTING CORNERS like some of your competitors do! I have not put a budget together to see if I can do it for considerably less money. If I couldn't, I would just buy one from you when the time comes. :D Not trying to ruffle any feathers here. I'm a peaceable guy. :)
 

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VxTurboVx,

To answer your question about the shop air regulator: If the regulator is a "relieving type" compressed air regulator, you would fill your trunk with propane gas. TALK ABOUT THUNDERING BASS! Like I said, if you can't do it safely, DON'T TRY IT. That is all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
granitestategn:
VxTurboVx,

To answer your question about the shop air regulator: If the regulator is a "relieving type" compressed air regulator, you would fill your trunk with propane gas. TALK ABOUT THUNDERING BASS! Like I said, if you can't do it safely, DON'T TRY IT. That is all.
Just don't buy the relieving type.... I figure I can order almost all the parts I need if not all of them from the forklift company we buy from at work. They have the propane solinoids, lines, and regulators. With 20 ft of tubing, 1 solinoid, and a standard regulator (up to 100psi) your looking at about $300.

Just thought I'd let you know.

http://www.flogas.ie/floregs.html

Look at that HP regulator.

psi = mbar x (1.4503 x 10-2)
mbar = psi x 68.95

I think that would work fine. What pressure do those "store bought" kits run at?

<small>[ March 29, 2003, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: VxTurboxV ]</small>
 

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Don't forget the pressure relief vent as well. Of course you won't have in cab control, or a modulated delivery, making it difficult to get consistent times.

If you press it to the edge (don't we all at times? :) ) you be putting HG's in with a change of weather, unless you go back and change the needle valve. Not to mentions what happens when you run out of propane in the middle of the run from not having an early warning system for low propane pressure.
 

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Turbo_Tim:
Of course you won't have in cab control, or a modulated delivery, making it difficult to get consistent times.

If you press it to the edge (don't we all at times? :) ) you be putting HG's in with a change of weather, unless you go back and change the needle valve.
Hey, the title of this thread is DIY Propane Injection---it doesn't get any more DIY than having to get out of the car to adust that valve and "Do It Yourself" does it? To hell with safety devices and convenient ****pit controls.....

Sorry, that just struck me as hilarious for some reason when I thought about it, carry on as if I was never here. :D
 

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VxTurboxV,

Check your math. 500 mbar is 500 millebars. That's roughly 7 psi for its minimum set pressure. I don't know what its max pressure is but it probably isn't enough. Since you want good propane delivery at 20+ psi intake manifold pressure, you would want the low side pressure of the regulator pretty high so that the 20 psi boost pressure would have a small effect on the metered delivery rate of the propane. Remember, you're metering the propane through a small orifice. You don't want to just puke it into the up pipe. I would think you would want around 100 psi delivered to the solenoid. That way the pressure under boost will not greatly affect the amount of propane flow through the metering orifice. There are some regulators out there designed for high pressure (125 psi regulated) propane cutting systems. The problem is that they're imported so the quality (read safety) may be questionable. Most brand name propane cutting system regulators are designed for 50 psi low side pressure. 50 psi, IMO, may not be enough for proper operation. I do not know this for a fact, but I would think this is were Jay C. ran into problems finding off the shelf parts for his system. That is speculation on my part. To design a safe system the parts need to be of high quality and intended for use with gaseous propane. DOT approved is a good place to start. Cutting corners will get you a system that is either a catastrophe waiting to happen or just plain doesn't work right. BTW, I'm sure you already know this, but lift trucks run on liquid propane. Pick-up tube is in the bottom of tank. They use an evaporator instead of a carb. As always, "Just my opinion". :)
 

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What kind of pressure are these systems running at? Forklift regulators run at very low pressure, most are a "demand" system, meaning they "suck" fuel as the engine vacuum increases.I also wonder how to get an engine to affectively run on both fuels, gasoline and propane have very different timing requirements. Just wondering, maybe professor Carter will tell us.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Turbo_Tim:

Not to mentions what happens when you run out of propane in the middle of the run from not having an early warning system for low propane pressure.
Buy a pressure activated switch and a little red light.

<strong>

Check your math. 500 mbar is 500 millebars. That's roughly 7 psi for its minimum set pressure.
Hey, you might got me there, I had no idea what the conversion was so I went to online conversion sight. http://www.control.co.kr/dic/press_conv.htm

And if you go to the bottom, from what I can tell it's you that need to check your math. (maybe not once again i don't know for a fact. :confused: )

<strong>
lift trucks run on liquid propane. Pickup tube is in the bottom of tank. They use an evaporator instead of a carb. As always, "Just my opinion". .
Yea, but I'm not talking about using a LPG tank. Just the regulator, either way they are the same design and would work the same.

If your so concerned about this regulator just buy a standard HP Welding/oxygen/Nitrogen most are good for up to 3000psi has all the cool guages too.

found here...http://www.mcmaster.com/ (under regulators) $77

Maybe this would work for you? dunno I'm not trying to insult anyone and I'll take any constructive criticism dished out. I just want to know if I can make a DIY propane kit that is safe and reasonably inexpensive.

Thanks again all for your input.

<small>[ March 31, 2003, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: VxTurboxV ]</small>
 

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VxTurboxV,

OK, to convert from millibar to PSI you multiply millibars times 1.45 X 10E-2 (which is 0.0145 when you get rid of the scientific notation). 500 millibars X 0.0145 = 7.25 PSI on its minimum setting. Like I said, it doesn't say what its maximum setting is. Also, I doubt that the internal parts of a liquid LPG regulator and a gaseous propane regulator are identical. You should not have problems with incompatible materials but you will probably have capacity (flow) issues. I would not use the regulator out of McMaster Carr because it is not designed for use with propane. You're getting closer to what would be needed but I doubt the materials would be correct. There is probably a reason why they sell regulator sets specifically for propane, don't you think? If I was going to use an off the shelf regulator I would consider the one's in MSC Industrial's catalog. They're meant for propane and they're good to 125 PSI.
 
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