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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, this has been driving me nuts... When the car is cold and the coolant temp is under 160 degrees or in open loop, the car drives like crap.. hesitates, sputters, ect. I have to wait until it goes into closed loop and the car warms up before I can get moving. I changed the temp sensor, thermostat (160), even swapped chips but still happens. It's not that bad in the summer but the winter is a killer.. have to sit for like 10 mins warming it up..

Ken

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87 GN - 52K, 30# green stripe injectors, adj. regulator, adj. wastegate, 3" Up-pipe, Poston's Ultrachip, Tomka cold-air induction, XP+ pump (hotwired), Hooker exhaust, Poston's Hi-Flow cat, Scanmaster II, KYB Shocks, Eibach springs, Optima battery, Full power, Broken antenna.
 

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Scan tool info would be helpful in trying to determine what is amiss.

maf, ints, blms, temp sensor readings...etc.
 

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So easy cavemen can do it
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I have the same problem also with my 87' GN. Everytime I start my car up for the first time of the day or go long between starts; and I am in a hurry and wanna get going, the car bogs, stalls, doesn't run like normal at first for some reason. But once the engine warms up, the idle stays at 1000 rpm and car runs fine. I always thought this was the case with every GN. I have a brand new O2 sensor put in, also brand new MAF sensor. Any suggestions to this would be greatly appreciated!

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Why does everyone have to be a Chevy or Ford fan? Buick whoops them both! The Corvette is over-rated, and Camaros and Mustangs are so common, everyone and their mum owns one. With the Grand National, you not only have a fast car, you have a REALLY fast car! Not to mention it's not seen everyday like the cars I mentioned. I've raced Mustangs and Camaros with my stock 87' GN and I was never impressed with the opponents efforts=D
 

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Originally posted by Zap:
If you ever find the solution please post. My 85 is the same way. It was that way before an engine rebuild and after. That way with different MAF's, chips, etc. Very frustrating.


[This message has been edited by Zap (edited August 02, 2001).]
What is your combo Zapper? I'd like to give it a shot.



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Jim Testa
1986 Regal T-Type
Stock block, Turbomotion ported heads, PTE 210 roller cam, GNT ported intake, PTE Plenum, 70mm TB, PTE FM IC, MSD 50's, TE61, TPS-TEC, JT Chip, JT 200R4, Vigilante 2800 LU convertor, JT Boxed lower arms, working on girlde....
 

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I usually lead with a left jab and a right cross...oh you mean the car!

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1985 Turbo Regal

1987 Turbo
1987 MAF sensor
1987 ECM
Lucas 621037 injectors (38lb)
Joe Lubrant street chip
Red Stripe "2800" TQ Conv.
204/214 cam
hot wired 307
"237" regulator
K&N cone
3" single exhaust with stock dp, Hooker "Maximum flow" Muff
Stock headers re-welded (poorly, cracks again?)

Scan Tool is T-Link

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Car would start and run with Thrasher chip and greenies (I know about the thrashers). Never would run right in open loop with stock chip, or Modern Muscle chip for 85 ecm,etc. Had an ATR pitbull chip as well, same way after ecm change. Runs a bit rough in closed loop at idle (figured that may be the 204/214 cam though) with around 15lbs of vacuum.

d0n_3d:

They are not all that way. My 84 Turbo Regal and the 84 Turbo Riv would always start right up and run great (before I tore the engines out, they wont run at all without the engines
) Damn 85 never would.





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Leaky injector(s) flooding a cylinder(s)?

Take your infrared temperature gun and check each pipe for temperature right after starting the engine.
 

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You will never know until you check. You think that just because they are new makes them perfect?
 

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Yes, the HBC just paged to let me know a 5th village has joined the search for you.
 

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If you have a chip with improved cold start I'd be looking for a vac leak. Check the
egr gasket,injector o-rings and make sure
no holes in the MAF pipe. Hope this helps.
 

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Couldn't hurt!
Sounds like a common problem. I raised the IAC counts to around 22 in idle yesterday (up from around 10), and it seemed to help a bit on the next cold start. Maybe someday I will find an answer. Virtually everything has been replaced on the car (vacuum lines,injectors,ecm, etc) and it still acts the same. Vacuum leaks are a real bitch to find sometimes though and you could well be correct.

I guess Ken87GN, d0n_3d, and I will have to start a "closed loop" club.


JIM TESTA! Where are you? Any suggestions not involving infrared thermometers?



[This message has been edited by Zap (edited August 04, 2001).]



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Just a thought... When I ran into problems like this, and it "appeared" like all the sensors were operating correctly, I would turn the fuel pressure WAY up and then WAY down, to see the effect (about +/- 7psi). You have to make sure its in open loop so no corrections take place (and don't go WOT). This would sometimes give me an idea if the fueling in the chip needed adjusting.

Then I saved my pennies and got a Maxeffort, and adjusted the fuel myself. It runs smooth as silk with the ME, cold or hot.

Eric



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Eric Marshall
'87 GN, 4.1 Stage 1, PT51, ATR Single Shot, 52lb. injectors, TH350 tranny, MaxEffort 16. (Down for engine rebuild)
'87 GN, Mostly Stock, Hooker exhaust
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hey Zap, the "closed loop" club sounds like a good idea.. at least now I know I'm not the only one with this problem.. Today I re-gapped the plugs to see if anything changed. Had them at .35, re-gapped them to .32 feels a little better but this can't get on it when cold. I am leaning now towards 2 other things, the EGR valve and the IAC motor.. Once before I got a code 32 (EGR) when I started the car cold and my IAC #'s vary at times from the 20's to the 50's at idle. I also have a stumble on light throttle that may have something to do with the cold running thing... who knows.

With these cars I've learned it could be one of a hundred things to look for!

Ken


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87 GN - 52K, 30# green stripe injectors, adj. regulator, adj. wastegate, 3" Up-pipe, Poston's Ultrachip, Tomka cold-air induction, XP+ pump (hotwired), Hooker exhaust, Poston's Hi-Flow cat, Scanmaster II, KYB Shocks, Eibach springs, Optima battery, Full power, Broken antenna.
 

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yep i have a same problem like u have..i have a bad idle to...i got my car back last week i brought it to a shop and my bill was $550 and still my car idles bad.. it likes to bog during a cold start up... the tech replaced my cam sensor, new plug wires, new coil pack, new crank, new spark plugs, new maf, he found no vacuum leaks and still it likes to bogg and hesiate when i fire it right up, iac, tps o2 are all in specs, idle is adjusted with specs...it sucks that i paid this much money and still my car doesn't like to idle good...even that tech doesn't know why by car don't idle good. it idles good when the engine is warmed up but when it sits for a day or so and i fire it up the rpm slowly come down and it boggs and hesiates...i have no idea why my car dont idle the way i want it to...everthings all new and i still have no clue why..i paid $550 for all this and by car is still the same doesn't like to idle good...so now i dont know what to do...
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
That's sucks man... I've been through it also so don't feel too bad, besides at least you have someone who seems to know what to do with these cars.. there's nobody in NY that I can find that knows jack about TR's.

I want to hear from all of those "I drive my TR everyday" people and see if they encounter these problems. My friends ask me why I don't drive mine everyday, because it would drive me up the wall and would've probably sold this car already!

Looks like we have another member to the "closed loop" club..

Ken

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87 GN - 52K, 30# green stripe injectors, adj. regulator, adj. wastegate, 3" Up-pipe, Poston's Ultrachip, Tomka cold-air induction, XP+ pump (hotwired), Hooker exhaust, Poston's Hi-Flow cat, Scanmaster II, KYB Shocks, Eibach springs, Optima battery, Full power, Broken antenna.
 

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hey ken87gn, d0n_3d, zap, keep me posted if u find out anything that improved your bad idle..i'll keep in touch if i find out anything that improved my crappy idle...thanks
 

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