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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Guys -

I built a new engine and it started right up which was nice. However it seems that every rocker/lifter is ticking. Tons of top end lifter tick. Almost every lifter was ticking half crank speed.

Some things on the motor:

I put a new edlebrock 204/214 cam in with new lifters.
I also put new pushrods in which were length 8.68".

It seems like the lifters werent pumping up, but I had good oil pressure.
chapion GN1 heads and stock rockers?

I ran the car for about 2 minutes and shut it off before any damage was done. Even when reving the car up, it still ticked really badly. I thought the tick might go away upon reving up but it didnt, only got louder and faster.

Also, I used RJC's indestructable headgasket with the GE sealer. I wonder if that shimmed the head higher than i thought it would?

I am certain it is not anything related to crank or rods, but rather a lifter preload situation? Any ideas?

The oldpushrods which were bent, did not tick like this?

Any help would be great.

Thanks
JP
 

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Someone Crown My Ass!
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SO MANY things could be wrong. Did you measure for pushrods? What was the cause with the other set bending? Was everything double checked? What kind of lifters? What weight oil are you using? EOS added? Stock rocker/shafts or rollers?
 

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I have seen some cars from GM Tick like mad for up to 5-10 min. Don't rev it, they will pump up. Make sure your lifter pre-load is correct though. That's #1. If everything is the same, lifter sizes (length) and the pushrods are stock length it should be ok. I don't think cam selection has anything to do with pushrod length unless you went with some crazy cam. :dunno:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
everything was double checked

The cam is the new edlebrock 204/214 with brand new GM lifters that come with the kit. Some pushrods were bent due to over reving the motor last time.

I got a completly new block, lower end, crank, rods, pistons and cam put all new gaskets in, bolted on the old heads onto the new block, as well as the intake, and front cover. Everything was assembled with assembly lube and EOS. Heads had .005 taken off. Stock rocker shafts from old motor were used.

It is definitly valve tick. The new pushrods I put in, were the same length as the old ones. Does the RJC metal shim head gasket raise the head that much to cause lifter tick?

The old motor didnt tick with those pushrods, some old pushrods and some new pushrods were used in the new motor, why would they be ticking now?

I didnt check valve lash, since I thought primarily since its same heads and rockers it should just bolt up the same on the new motor. Didnt tick before, why would it start.

Nothing extreme here, just some new and old parts together?

Does it relly take 10 minutes for lifters to pump up? I have never had this problem on any vehicle before, this however is my first GN.

Right now I am thinking of either getting new adjustable pushrods, or adjustable roller rockers. Please give me your advice.

Thanks in advance.
JP
 

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I say finish the cam breakin and then see if it still ticks. I have seen'em tick longer than 2 minutes on inital start up with a new motor. :6:
 

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what brand of lifter?? ...probably did more damage shutting it off during break in than anything that might occur from the ticking.
 

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Steve Wood said:
what brand of lifter?? ...probably did more damage shutting it off during break in than anything that might occur from the ticking.

Steve, I know you and Ed have said this many times, but I'm not sure why stopping the engine can do damage to the cam. Can you please explain. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Steve Wood said:
what brand of lifter?? ...probably did more damage shutting it off during break in than anything that might occur from the ticking.

Edlebrock sends lifters with the cam. Sometimes generic POS lifters are used with cam kits, these are the better of the lifters often talked about in articles.

I will finish the break in wednesday night when i am back in town. I know that that is bad, but I will finish the break in as if new again.

If the ticking remians...what are my next steps?
 

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Your next step is to measure lifter preload.

:)
 

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yep :)
 

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Check the preload and charge it with 10/30 for your break-ins. Was you intake hard to bolt in place? If it wasn't then I doubt you lost very much with the RJC gaskets. If you had singles you would though!
 

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i did have a 3100 that i put a set of lifters in take a good 5 minutes to pump up- it was worrying me but i was like ehhhh its running ok so ill let it go. between 5 and 10 minutes later it was quiet
 

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chrisgarrett46 said:
Steve, I know you and Ed have said this many times, but I'm not sure why stopping the engine can do damage to the cam. Can you please explain. Thanks
one puts the cam break in material on the lobes and lifter bases during installation. The sole purpose of this material is to provide some lubrication to the surfaces and prevent galling until the engine is pumping enuf oil to do the same. Then one runs the engine for 20 minutes, or so, to allow the lobe/lifter surfaces to "mate".

If one turns off the engine early in the cycle, the break in material has been washed off the interfaces, and, one is back to a metal to metal scuff for a few seconds until the engine is back up to speed and flooding the surfaces with oil again. Remember, the lobe/lifter interface is a "splash" oiling operation

We run the engines at the 2000 rpm, or so, level in order to gets lots of oil splash to provide cooling/lubrication. We use the break in material to buffer the period from no oil flow to a lot of oil flow. If it is not there, it increases the chances of failure.

Is stopping and restarting as bad as not having any initially? Probably not, but, it is one of the things to avoid if one wants to maximize success rate.

If one hears a rod knock or flame is shooting out the throttlebody, it's a good idea to turn the engine off... :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Intake was slightly tough(er)

FYI, I did prime the engine for about 5 minutes with my electric drill and oil pump priming shaft.

When I put the intake on, it was slightly tougher to get all the bolts to mate at the correct angles. I have built numerous buick 455's and the intake was always a slight pain because of how it sits between the heads and all, but nothing major, or at least out of my concern. Maybe the 3.8 slids in with no problem and the binding issue should have been a concern? My mistake was not measuring lifter preload and "ASSUMING" the lifters would pump up and take care of everything as they have on my 455's.

- Steve I hear what you are saying about the contact surfaces mating, I will take care not to let this happen again?

- Has anyone reading this had issues with this type of thing before?

Lastly, where are links for t&d adjustable rockers, and adjustable pushrods if I do need to go that route?

Thanks
JP
 

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i did the same route as you but i used the roller rockers from champion on the champion heads... my push rods were 8.85s....i dont know what size the stock push rods are but these were like a quarter longer...i actually think in the champion directions it mentions somthing about them? grandted the rockers are adjustable but i think the push rods need to be longer.im not the be all say all tho... but just my experience...hope it helps.
 

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Correct pushrod length and preload is needed. Adj rockers are for fine adjustments and not to compensate for wrong pushrods, Adj pushrods will work but my opinion is just a bandaid with more moving mass and a chance to loosen and cause major damage. Buy one to check and determine the correct length pushrod needed. Then order the brand and type you prefer. :sw:
 

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11secondgs said:
FYI, I did prime the engine for about 5 minutes with my electric drill and oil pump priming shaft.

When I put the intake on, it was slightly tougher to get all the bolts to mate at the correct angles. I have built numerous buick 455's and the intake was always a slight pain because of how it sits between the heads and all, but nothing major, or at least out of my concern. Maybe the 3.8 slids in with no problem and the binding issue should have been a concern? My mistake was not measuring lifter preload and "ASSUMING" the lifters would pump up and take care of everything as they have on my 455's.

- Steve I hear what you are saying about the contact surfaces mating, I will take care not to let this happen again?

- Has anyone reading this had issues with this type of thing before?

Lastly, where are links for t&d adjustable rockers, and adjustable pushrods if I do need to go that route?

Thanks
JP
As you stated, you have a long history w/455's. I will take it for granted your machine shop didn't screw you w/valve stem height. I would however check.

Do you know you have enough oil pressure?

Adjustable pushrod(s). I do not check Buick lifter preload w/ adjustable pushrod, but if I did I would check both ends of both heads. I have tried a full set of adjustable pushrods to adjust lash, I would never do that again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
wmsonta said:
As you stated, you have a long history w/455's. I will take it for granted your machine shop didn't screw you w/valve stem height. I would however check.

Heads were fully assembled, and ran correctly on old motor. All the machine shop did was take .005 off, and check heads for cracks. They did nothing with the valves I believe


Do you know you have enough oil pressure?

30PSI at idle cold and about 35PSI at 2000 RPM.

Adjustable pushrod(s). I do not check Buick lifter preload w/ adjustable pushrod, but if I did I would check both ends of both heads. I have tried a full set of adjustable pushrods to adjust lash, I would never do that again.

Could you please further, I was thinking of going this route?
JP
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
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I also read that some motors have lots of variance between poshrods, so it seems adjustable rockers or pushrods would be the only way to go? Anybody disagree.
 

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adjustable rockers are better at improving valvetrain geometry than changing preload in my opinion.

Adjustable pushrods are bad as they not only add reciprocating weight to the valve train which is bad, but, they have a habit of not staying adjusted with time, either.

I don't think there is any need to overly obsess over preload. If you believe what you read, then it is not all that crucial...now I don't believe everything that I read :) so, I would shoot for a range of .030"-.040" and use a pushrod that keeps it in this range.

Therefore, following the advice of wmsonta...I would take one adjustable pushrod and check the required length at a couple of places on each head, then, take an average and order a set of pushrods to this dimension.

I certainly don't believe in trying to use individual pushrods to make up for a cheap valve job...I would rather find a better machinist the next time around. :D
 
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