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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been posting for some time now trying to find out what is going on, my fault, I don't post often and work on car often, on the road a lot.I have a time constraint now. I'm being transfered and am trying to deal with my tranny man before I leave, short time frame.History: I have been having severe vibration when crusing and go into boost about 4psi and stops around 8 or so. With some of you guys help it's been narrowed down to the converter. Changed turbo before but wasn't the problem. Anyway I have learned that while vibrating if you tap the brake it stops or if you are doing a wot blast it won't do it. Youcan hold the brake slightly and it won't do it. My tranny mech. says that he thinks its the ecm because, the converters seldom have problems that he sees and that when he rebuilt the tranny he installed a new converter and the solinoid that works it. Also that the lock up was unhooked when he started to rebuild the tranny, very suspect don,t you think? He said that the converter is not unlocking until around 2.5v tps voltage whitch is to late and the power from the engine is more than the lockup surfaces can take. I have not seen any reference to this type of problem on this or the other board. We tried an additive that is supposed to eliminate shudder but did't work.What do you guys think? It did it with the KB chip and the RA93 I have in it now.
 

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Why don't you call Mike Kurtz at 713 666 2616 and explain the problem to him. Mike is the longest term 200 4R builder around.

It could be the solenoid or it could be some trash in the circuit, BUT the solenoid unlocks when you touch the brake so it seems it is physically working...therefore it may not being ungrounded by the ecm like it is supposed to when you go to the gas or the tan/black wire from the ecm is grounded some place.

Terminal F on the aldl is the same wire and when you ground it there, it locks the converter. There is no old lock up switch wired into the aldl, is there?



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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for you quick response Steve! No there is not a switch hooked id to lock up the converter. The only mods that have been done were by me since I've owned the car.Do you know the process that takes place during lockup and unlocking? Does the tps signal the action to occure at different throttle positions, what role does the chip play? I've read that the chip can be programed to bring in lock up at certain times. I would think that under 3 to 6 or so boost the converter should be able to take it. I don't want my tranny guy to replace when the problem is not the converter. Will the phone # you gave me work during the day or should I wait until after work hours? Thanks Steve.
 

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The number for Mike Kurtz is for PMAC or Century Transmissions as it is now called...office hours are 8-5:30 CDT

The converter is locked at cruise by the mph put into the chip...say 40-45 mph.

It unlocks when the pedal is pressed down some specified amount by a command from the ecm to un ground the circuit. Yes, some chips are coded to lock at some specified mph under wot.

What i don't understand about yours is that it seems locked but does not apparently unlock under light acceleration. That will possibly cause some shudder as mine does if I lock it manually at low speed.

From your description, yours seems to unlock when you touch the brake so it is not staying locked all the time.



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Your best bet is to try and find someone nearby who has experienced turbo compressor surge and take them for a ride to demonstrate the problem.
The reason I say this is because it sounds VERY MUCH like how someone might describe turbo surge if they've never experienced it before.



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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Steve and Turbo Dave for your reply. This thing is driving me crazy, after I posted yesterday, on the way home(40 miles) I couldn't get it to shudder!! Didn't do it this morning either> I put some additive in it 2 days ago that my tranny man gave me, I don't know if that had anything to do with it or not. The car did it before I changed to 009 injectors and at that time it was pretty much stock. Seems funny that it would be surging? Didn't do it before tranny overhaul ( converter was unhooked). I will keep you informed. Still don't seem to disengage when lightly accelerating though. We adjusted the TV cable last night though and I haven"t drove it enough to make a determination yet.( to much traffic back up this morning. I will let you know the results. Any other thoughts???
 

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Even though it is new (according to your trans builder), it could be the TCC solenoid - they can go at any time and are a common problem on the 2004R trans. Are the problems non-existant if you unplug the TCC connector? If so then the solenoid is most likely your problem. Read this writeup and see if the symptoms sound familiar:
http://www.montecarloss.com/TCC_Solenoid.html

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[This message has been edited by 85_SS (edited May 21, 2002).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for your reply 85SS, Intresting info you provided.It appears that the converter is locking and unlocking ok except that when you start to put a load on it the shudder would occure. As I stated earlier, after putting in the additive it didn,t do it for a few days. Yesterday however it did it again twice. I have also moved the TV cable about 1 notch from it's original position because it didn't shift right. My tranny man said that the converter he installed was not the OEM type but was supposed to be a replacement. I question the way the converter unlocks, I thought that say you are cruising at 55 and you apply gas at a slow and steady pace, shouldn't the converter unlock fairly quickly so the engine won't bog? It appears that what is happening is that boost starts coming on while the converter is still locked and perhaps overloads the converter clutch. If you touch the brake during the shudder the converter will unlock and stop shuddering. But,,, when is the converter supposed to unlock in this situation? What controls it ? I take it the ECM controls it but is the chip doing it or the ECM itself? Can or should this be addressed by ordering a special chip? My RA93 shouldn't do my car any different than anyone elses. Besides, the shudder was there whith the previous chip. Your thoughts are appreciated.

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I have a slight vibration in this parts car motor. I disconnected the flywheel from the TC to rule out any converter issues or driveline issues. It will vibrate right around 1900rpm. Below or past that RPM it doesn't vibrate. I still haven't figured out what it is, but I know it's not the trans...

Might want to take the TC bolts out and start it up...

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[This message has been edited by Orlando_87GN (edited May 22, 2002).]
 

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I would go back to your tranny guy and get the make and model of your converter. Then call up Mike Kurtz or Bruce Tolle. If you have the wrong converter it would cause strange symtons. My guess would be you cracked a ear off the converter input.

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks guys for your replies! I changed the chip last nite, put in the RA race chip, don,t know exact oct. rating. The car seems to unlock while cruising better and has not shuddered yet but it has been erratic anyway. Chip sure made a difference performance wise!! (First time I ever ran a race chip, WOW) Since the car didn't shudder before the tranny rebuild ( converter lockup was unhooked) I really don't beleive the problem is an angine vibration problem, also the fact that adding the additive , which definatly made a difference,this supports a converter problem. Do you guys agree?? I think I will find out the type of converter and ask the people you recommended, it may clear up the confusion. I feel that the converter is the problem and as time goes on things keep pointing that way. I will talk to my tranny man and make a decision during the next couple of days. Time is getting close for my move to KY. and if I need to do converter chang it must be soon. Thanks again for your input you guys are great!! I will keepyou informed. I wish people would post their end results to problems more often, it's like reading a novel and finding out that the last ten pages have been tore out.
 

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Was this problem ever solved? I have exactly the same symptoms i.e at low boost levels the convertor does not unlock and a vibration (a shuddering effect) happens. If i give it more throttle it unlocks and smooths out. Engine mounts are new stock rubber ones but I forget if the tranny one is poly or not. Tranny and D5 convertor were rebuilt. Tranny is fine but maybe convertor is not?? Works fine-just shudders at low boost when locked. Feeels like driveline is wobbling or something. I can eliminate it if I touch the brake pedal lightly when it is doing it so I am sure it is convertor related. Might it be OK but a too hard tranny mount is transferring the vibration? It stalls Ok -but I would probably enjoy a higher stall convertor just cause I like to drive the car sideways sometimes :rolleyes: I only have a TE-44 and it spools pretty good with the T+ and extender chip for 60lb injectors. Just the addition of a passenger in the car does cause the car to burn less rubber due to the extra weight. I can't burn rubber for nothing with my wife in the car :eek!: BUT.... that's because she'll scream at me and beat the crap out of me if I even get the alky to turn on :mad: I need to wear a helmet and ear protection when she drives with me. :rant:
 

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at low boost levels the convertor does not unlock and a vibration (a shuddering effect) happens.
If i give it more throttle it unlocks and smooths out.
I don't think it's a converter problem since it works. Sounds more like a chip tweak is needed to suit your driving preference. Possibly moving the TV cable one click one way or the other. Try the TV cable adjustment and repost. It's free.
 

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John, What effect would the change in pressure from the TV cable normally have on the convertor or lockup operation? I can certainly give it a try but I like the shift quality where it is at now. Also Russ Merrit adusted it by line pressure I think. He had to put some new parts in the tranny. It did this before he worked on it and in fact I forgot to even mention it to him-so it is nothing he did. It actually shifts great.
Hisson Buford, I don't detect any slipping if that is what you are leading to. I have not looked at this problem with Directscan yet-maybe I should. Maybe the lockup clutch isn't holding the power the way it should. I typically run 25 lbs boost and I can get a pretty high percentage of that boost to come in at pretty low throttle openings. That may be why the convertor is still locked-(Tps still at a fairly low leve)l. I didn't think that that would be a problem but maybe the torque is overpowering the lockup clutch? Doesn't feel like a slip though. Sorta feels like your running over those liquid tar patches they use to fill cracks in the road surface with too high a tire pressure. A rumble effect- if that makes any sense. As soon as I give it more throttle it unlocks and goes away.
I do have 1 RPM level that creates a pretty good vibration while idling in park. I woud guess it to be around 2500 rpm or so. Above and below that it is fine and I do not feel it when driving in gear. I have a feeling that is normal for these cars. Some cars just transmit it more either due to the balancing of the motor or the condition and type of motor/tranny mounts. Do you get the feeling I'm trying not to worry about it too much?
I will have to try the TV cable to see if it makes any difference. :dunno:
 
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