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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Everyone is always asking what the difference is between running alky race gas. The Nebra crew held a dyno day on 4/27 in RI and one of our fearless members ran back-to-back comparisons on his car. Temps were in the low 60's and the humidity was low. Below are his comments on the runs.


Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 19:06:01 -0400
From: Brian 'waGoN' Lee <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Thanks Guys!!!

Thanks for setting up the Dyno Day. Tell Mike, thanks, next time
you see him. Bruce thanks for the directions.

My results??
First run out was 100+hp with over 500ft-lbs
Second run was something like 46 hp don't remember torque.
Hooked up TV cable (disconnected it in hopes of preventing kickdown)
Probably what was freaking out the dyno.

Next run 357 hp 449 ft-lbs
Next run 356 hp 485 ft-lbs
Now these were all with 93 octane and a 50/50 mix of water and
Boost level?? Not too sure. It peaked at 25 for the last one, but my
boost recorder reads peak, but my boost usually peaks then drops a
or two, so I don't know. What I do know is that I had little to no
knock on all of these runs.

Paul, buddy, I didn't forget ya!

I had the time, so I pumped out 5 gallons of the 93 octane, and added 5
gallons of 117. (You owe me $38 by the way, just kidding.) That
could've bought me 5 gallons of alcohol. Ahhh, but in the interest of
science, it was a worthwhile investment. I then turned off the alcohol
injection apparatus. (I almost cried, my hands are still shaking.)

I made one run, and got 361 hp. A whopping jump of 4 horsies. The
torque went up too, 521 ft-lbs. That was a good jump, but since I got
something like 511 on the 100+ hp run, I am not relying on these values
a whole lot.
I made another run, but on this one I upped the boost a tad. It peaked
at 27.2#.
367 hp and 466 ft-lbs
Little to no knock on the sober runs also.

So here is a quick breakdown:
93 octane w/alc+H2O

357hp 449ft-lbs
356hp 485ft-lbs

117 octane on the wagon(so to speak)

361hp 521ft-lbs
367hp 466ft-lbs*

*boost increase(half a turn, what ever that equaled, maybe 1 or 2#)

Well, anyone can see that...... Well, I am not trying to convince
anything. You're all adults, make up your own minds.

One thing though. I am not doing this in an effort to make more power.
I run the alcohol injection so that it is always there. So that I
have to replace O2 sensors, and so that my gas is like $1.50 gal, not
$7.50. If I had a car that I just pretty much drove to the track, and
raced, then I might be inclined to dump in the good stuff. But when
pull into the track in Grandma's old grocery getter, and then pull up
the gas shack and dump in some purple or blue liquid, people get the
idea that you ain't Grandma, although the lack of gray hair should clue
them in. I was gonna say the mustache, but hey ya know?

Who knows, with better tuning, maybe the race fuel will net better
results, but the way that I run the car, it is good enough for me, and
since I am actually running less boost than last year, maybe I can get
by without replacing so many head gaskets this year. And, I think I
tune the alchy system just a little to remove a small bog/flooding out
condition that I seem to be getting sometimes at WOT.



6,966 Posts
Thanks for posting the information.

How about getting the combo. for us?

Those results are almost exactly what I got on alky. and 23-24psi.

Premium Member
43,735 Posts
All things being equal, one would not expect to make more power by simply switching to C16. In fact, more power might have been made by using a lower octane with a faster burn rate.

Now, to find out what C16 would do, one would have to bump the timing and the boost to the limits of the combination.


1,752 Posts
Thanks for the info. I run the SMC with denatured/water and always wondered what difference race gas would make.

Good point on the timing/boost issue Steve. If I used race gas with a 26* timing chip and the same boost, I would go faster than with the alcohol and 21* timing.


Jim: 87 GN with: TA-49/PTE .63 housing; stock motor, transmission and converter; MSD 50#; CAS V-4; 3" DP; ATR 2.5" SS exhaust; 62 mm Hemco; Translator w/3" MAF; Bigmouth air system; SMC alcohol; Walbro 340; BFG DRs; and Extender 100 chip with 21* timing. Best ET/mph with w/93 octane + alcohol were 11.961/117.05.

1,202 Posts
Ditto Steve, to go one step further, I've often wondered if there is anything to gain by running alky and racegas while pushing the limits.

I'd like to try straight Methanol fuel with water injection someday too. I think that's be a fun car to build.

Premium Member
43,735 Posts
Originally posted by GNCOL:
Thanks for the info. I run the SMC with denatured/water and always wondered what difference race gas would make.

Good point on the timing/boost issue Steve. If I used race gas with a 26* timing chip and the same boost, I would go faster than with the alcohol and 21* timing.

Yes, you will.
but it sometimes gets harder to keep it working with that much timing tho' some do. From a standing start, mine runs pretty good on 24 degs timing but from a roll, I get transitional knock....my ME has variable timing in the first seven positions and runs 21-22-23 degs and that helps a lot with the transitional knock.

The sweet spot of the turbo has a lot to do with it too. A 45 like on my car works a lot better at 27# than it does at 22#. There is not that much difference on a 44 where the sweet spot is probably more like 25#. My son's car with a 44 and alky is a blast at 22#.


6,876 Posts
I met Brian at one of the last GM High Tech events at E-Town last fall. A nice guy, and that wagon of his is bad a##!

As someone else mentioned above, at that time he was running a TE44 and Bluetops. That alky injection setup and the boost recorder he's got is SUPER cool too! I think he was running mid 12's on super skinny 195/?/? whitewall tires.



86 T-Type WH1
Wilmington, DE
GSCA# 4817
Web site: http://www.geocities.com/jamesbanning

11.80 @ 112.8mph w/1.57 60'

Mods (new combo):
PT51 turbo w/.63 housing, Ported irons w/stock valves, 218 cam, Powerstroke IC, 72# injectors, M.E. 16 position, ATR 3" DP w/external gate, DelTrans 200R4, 9.5" Vigilante, Eaton posi, Hooiser QT Pro's
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