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Old 01-02-2003, 01:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Question What do you think about this Suspension?

My suspension is completly 15 year old stock and is in horrible shape. I am redoing everything trying to get the most handling I can while keeping cost down. I am posting to get some feedback and someone else might benifit from all my searches and then people can say those GNs are fast and can handle.

Complete front end rebuilt with polygraphite including inner and outer tie rod ends, adjusting sleeve, and center link.

1 5/16 front 1 1/18 rear Chrome moly 4140 sway bars. These bars are solid and I believe would be stronger than the pieces taken of f-bodys. I also thing that the ATR bar, while better at the track would be too much for everyday driving.

KYB GR2 shocks. Yes the Bilstiens are better but I got the KYB in a package for $99 delivered.

Moog 5664 front spring rated at 760 (f-body convertable)and Moog 5385 rear springs rated at 165 (don't know). The rear spring although rated at higher than stock will drop the rear 1 to 1 1/2 inch.

With the front springs the front end at best will be at stock height to 1/2 inch higher. This with the lower rear would be horrible so to address this I am installing Bell Tech 2" drop spindles.

Front tires will be no smaller than 245/50/15 on a 15 x 7 possibly a 255, on the rear I am thinking about a 295/50/15 on a 15 x 8 rim but think with the drop rear it would be better to go with 275/50/15.

I am thinking about the South Side Machine traction bars but if not I will just box and poly the rear control arms.

What do you guys think? Take into consideration that although I like to go fast and drive fast cars I have never been to a 1/4 track as a participant. I just want a fast street car that can handle as good or almost as good as a stock F-body.
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Old 01-02-2003, 01:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't like poly bushings....I would go with del-a-lums...be sure, no matter what, to use a heat shield over the rear upper bushing on the passenger side.

Spend the extra $110 for the Bilsteins. With the bill you are wracking up, what's another hundred?

Tires make a lot of difference in swaybar selection. I used to run a 1 1/8" rear bar along with Eibach springs which dropped the car a bit more than an inch (ride height change has a lot to do with how the car currently sits) amd 255s on the rear. The bigger the rear tire, the more bar you will need.

In the end, a lot of the factors will depend upon the condition of your normal roads. Smooth roads are much more forgiving of big, wide tires and stiff bars.

The Belltechs give better geometry than shorter front springs but, as I said, can be a pain due to the excessive "lowness".


With regard to 12" brakes, consult some of UNGN's posts and Kendall F's. Don't forget bump steer if you want optimum handling.

Also talk to RacerX as he runs his car on the track.



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Old 01-02-2003, 02:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sergeant:
Moog 5664 front spring rated at 760 (f-body convertable)and Moog 5385 rear springs rated at 165 (don't know). The rear spring although rated at higher than stock will drop the rear 1 to 1 1/2 inch.
<snip>
With the front springs the front end at best will be at stock height to 1/2 inch higher. This with the lower rear would be horrible so to address this I am installing Bell Tech 2" drop spindles.
<snip>
I am thinking about the South Side Machine traction bars but if not I will just box and poly the rear control arms.
<snip>
What do you guys think?
<snip>
I just want a fast street car that can handle as good or almost as good as a stock F-body.
Sarge,
1) Your spring choices are commendable if it were more of a road course car. But, you are claiming 100% street. If I were you I'd go with the 5660s, maybe the 5662s in front. Forget the drop spindles and simply cut the springs to fit your needs. This will save you mucho $$$, and it doesn't mess with your suspension geometery as much as a lowering spindle would.
How do you know that the 5385s will offer you that much of a drop? Have you accounted the 1/4" lift you will be getting from the F-body spring isolators you'll be needing?

2) Have you ever been in a car with the SSM bars in place? You do realize that they don't have any bushings in them, right? I'd box the stockers and add a stiffer bushing.

3) I think that a set of 760# springs aren't going to need much of a swaybar... let alone a 1-5/16" unit. Typically, you use a large swaybar with soft springs, and a small 'bar with hard springs. Not both together. The same goes for the rear... you also need to concern yourself with weight transfer back here... A lack of it, which is what you are building into your car, is the quickest way to slow down the acceleration of a high torque automobile. Like the Turbo Regal. Because, you'll have developed the NO TRACTION blues.

4) You'll only get your car to handle as well as a stock 80s F-bomb with these parts. If you are lucky... there is far more to the puzzle to get into F-body or Vette land, in terms of handling.

I am not trying to sound mean. But, you are in for a rude awakening if you think this is what you want. I speak from experience:

Front: 5664s w/ a full coil cut (800+lb/in). 12" Brake upgrade with Global West DALs and tubular upper arms w/ Nylon bushings. Monte Carlo SS F41 'bar & Moog G2 swaybar bushings and endlinks.

Rear: SSM bars in the rear. Adustable uppers with rod ends. Stock springs and rubber bushings in the rearend ears. Monte Carlo SS F41 'bar.

Moog Gas Charge shocks on all four corners.

I have a 36mm F-body swaybar coming. And I am looking into a set of 12way adjustable QA1 shocks. Plus I am lightening the car up ('glass hood and trunk lid, and bumper and other guttages).

My point? I am sick of how the car rides... it hurts sometimes. Thank goodness this is becoming a race car more and more everyday.

I'd tone down your goals and save yourself even more money. If you aren't going to race the car, why does it matter if you have the means of going toe to toe with a F-body?

JMO,

------------------
Michael Lis

87 Vortec SS -- 12.7 @ 110 w/ 1.9 60' (This car runs 12s on 87 octane)
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87 Turbo T - 1986.99 WE4 Clone -- 13.4 @ 101.1mph w/2.0 60'
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Originally posted by myclone
I see you have ODed on retardacylin today. Want me to call an ambulance?
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Old 01-02-2003, 02:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Not trying to be an ass here, but we laugh at the ricers because they are trying to make a slow car go fast. You are trying to make a plush car handle. You will prolly get beat up in the process and the car will rattle and squeek like a mid-80's vette. If you want one that handles, buy a TTA and go from there.
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Old 01-02-2003, 02:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Thank you for responding and believe me I take nothing personal if any thing rip away as long as you have a suggestion after words. As far as the hard ride if the car gets 2,000 miles I would be very surprised so I can live with it. As far as cutting a coil I had that done once on a Camaro and it made the front end bounce. Maybe the bounce was because of the heat used but I did not want that again. As far as the SSM traction bars I am still thinking about it but it hinges on if they provide that much better performance over new bushings. With the stock car doing .80 G you don't think the setup with the exception of the traction bars help performance.
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Old 01-02-2003, 02:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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By the way on the rear spring information I got that on Turbobuick and was suposedly already done. As far as making the car har believe me I had a Shelby Cobra replica. No real windows, no A/C, no heat, no radio, fumes from the sidepipes, deafening roar under acceleration from the big block which ran to headers and sidepipes (notice no muffler) and if you got stuck in traffic of any kind you smelled of exhaust fumes and unburnt gas. The ride was rock hard and then in a split second you would tell yourself, "I don't remember making a u-turn."
Nothing I could do to the GN can make it compare. Now for everyday driving never but that is why I drive a Lincoln Mark 8.
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Old 01-02-2003, 02:51 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Also No I don't plan on going to the track and would never race another car on the street but I don't get tickets either.
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Old 01-02-2003, 03:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sergeant:

Maybe the bounce was because of the heat used but I did not want that again.
...Yep, that is why. Mine were cut. Not torched. I can't get more than a 1/2" of compression out of the suspension, by pushing down hard on the fender. It is sick really. I am lucky the car has a rollbar installed.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sergeant:

As far as the SSM traction bars I am still thinking about it but it hinges on if they provide that much better performance over new bushings. With the stock car doing .80 G you don't think the setup with the exception of the traction bars help performance.
...You'll find the same gains in a set of Global West lower control arms. I am taking my SSM bars out when I get the chance.

Good luck and feel free to contact me with any questions,


------------------
Michael Lis

87 Vortec SS -- 12.7 @ 110 w/ 1.9 60' (This car runs 12s on 87 octane)
Click Here To See Specs
87 Turbo T - 1986.99 WE4 Clone -- 13.4 @ 101.1mph w/2.0 60'
Click Here To See Specs
See the cars here:
Canadian Skunk Works

Originally posted by myclone
I see you have ODed on retardacylin today. Want me to call an ambulance?
__________________
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Old 01-07-2003, 02:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Well I have decided against the SSM traction bars and will probably just add new poly bushings. When cutting 1 full coil do you mean from the the start of the coil to were it would touch if it could be fully compressed? Do I need to change the stock spindles to go with bigger brakes and would the Belltech spindles hold the bigger brake system?
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