Cecil last night...

GrndNatnl · 11-20-2004, 10:24 AM

My night was a total waste. I only got one pass in and the boost was too low. I readjusted it, but never got another run, because my left rear wheel cylinder blew while boosting on the line and puked brake fluid. No brakes whatsoever. Pedal to the floor, and e-brake almost non existant. I had to get trailered home. I dont think I should be using the e-brake anymore. I think it may have been the cause. And I ruined the brand new soft compound shoes I just put on that are now soaked in DOT 3.

Mike: How'd you end up doing?? I had to head home, so I didnt get to see how you ran. Glad you got the car back together so quickly.

GrndNatnl · 11-20-2004, 01:24 PM

Mah oh man.. did I ever mangle some sh!t up this time.

I pulled the drum off and a bunch of hardware and springs just fell out onto the ground. It bent the hell out of one of the brake shoes, bent a couple pins, bent the cross-pin with the two forks on the ends that sits between the shoes above the axle, exploded the wheel cylinder, and destroyed the backing plate.

It's all apart now, so I gotta fetch hard parts and get it back together.

Since I think the e-brake had some fault in maybe contorting the shoes, causing the wheel cyl pin to slip off the shoe and burst, I'm done using the e-brake launch. So I think I'm going to install a new set of soft shoes, and the S-10 wheel cyls. That damn well better allow me to hold boost on the FOOTBRAKE ALONE, or I'm getting a trans brake.

If I have problems with the rear brakes locking with the cyls and soft shoes, I'll just have to deal with it. Anyone running the soft compound shoes AND S-10 cylinders have touchy rear brakes? Or are they ok. I've always heard go with one or the other.

FLR · 11-20-2004, 03:21 PM

Damn Matt, that sucks. Sorry to hear about that. I just did whole new rear brakes on my car. The shoes and drums that came off were junk. Put in new cylinders, hardware, shoes, and drums. Its alot better now, and I can hold a few pounds on the line. I think I may have to readjust them though, the e-brake is holding too great. I have put about two hundred miles on my car since last weekend. Let me know how it turns out.

FYI- The AutoZone at Salem Church road has the S-10 cylinders. I didnt get them when I was there (my mistake) but the should have them and the hardware. HTH.

-S

jhuber · 11-20-2004, 03:24 PM

Matt, what is the difference between stock GN and S-10 wheel cyclinders?
Also,where can you get the soft shoes from?

FLR · 11-20-2004, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jhuber
Matt, what is the difference between stock GN and S-10 wheel cyclinders?
Also,where can you get the soft shoes from?

The S-10 cylinders are supposed to be bigger than the stock TR wheel cylinders. How much bigger, I'm not sure.

You can get the soft rear shoes from Kirbans. $38 plus shipping, if memory serves correctly. HTH.

-S

jhuber · 11-20-2004, 03:46 PM

Thanks Scott.
With the cyclinders, I guess for them to fit, the length will be the same. Must be diameter thats larger?? I hope you do not have to grind or cut to make them fit?

GrndNatnl · 11-20-2004, 04:41 PM

Scott: How soon you forget... Pretty much everything in my entire brake system except for the lines (one replaced) is new. I just did the wheel cyls, hardware, and shoes in it back in July. So basically I broke a bunch of brand new parts. Talk about throwing money out the window.

John: The S-10 spec cylinders are not larger in size, they are just built different for the manual brake S-Series trucks that they apply more pressure then the ones the Regal calls for. Just go request wheel cylinders for a 1985 Chevy S-10, 2WD, with MANUAL BRAKES. They look identicle to the ones for the Regal.

I'm putting my old Bendix shoes back in for now, with the S-10 cyls. Since I'd rather not spend another $38 on soft shoes from Kirban just yet. I'll see how the cylinders hold boost. If not, then I'll get the shoes again, since they're a pretty simple change.

Slow91z · 11-20-2004, 04:42 PM

I am running both and they are touchy, but very managable...I can hold 14 pounds easy at the line.

S10 wheel cylinders have a larger diameter internally therefore they apply more pressure to the shoes with the same amount of pedal effort, they bolt right in, I got mine from Autozone, Pepboys wanted to much for them in my opinion.

I just bought a rear brake bias controller from jegs (40 bux) so that I can move the bias more forward and then turn the rears back up for the track, but I wouldn't even do that if I wasn't planning on driving it in the snow this year.

I also bought a line-lock, because without one I could hardly do a burnout, the rears just grabbed to much.

Slow91z · 11-20-2004, 04:43 PM

Guess you're alittle quicker on the button then me Matt.

GrndNatnl · 11-20-2004, 04:48 PM

I honestly didnt know that they had a bigger bore diameter inside. Just knew they applied more pressure somehow. Thanks for the facts on that.

Ok, since I'm using the S-10 cyls I'll put the Bendix shoes in and see how touchy they are and if I can still break the wheels loose when I want. If so, I'll stick with it. If they still dont hold, I'll probably get another set of the soft shoes.

Thanks for the feedback Collin!

Slow91z · 11-20-2004, 04:53 PM

Anytime...Hopefully I'll get a chance to wire up my lin lock tomorrow (installed it today) and go do a BIG smokey.

Do you think you're gonna go back to the track this year?? I'm shooting for next Fri. since I have the night off for the holiday.

I've got my air bags, line lock, and 28" slicks installed, saved enough money for a half a tank of race fuel, by god this thing better fly next time out.

GrndNatnl · 11-20-2004, 04:54 PM

I already picked up everything I need to get it back together. I think I fixed the backing plate by straightening it up where the wheel cyl mounts. Just a flat surface and a ballpeen hammer seemed to do the trick. Appears to be usable.

The only thing I need is the big bolt that goes up top above the cylinder. It holds the backing plate on the flange (along with the two small bolts), and it has that thing on the front side thats right between the ears of the cylinder, and has a little T-pin that sticks out so the spring can catch onto it.

Anyone have one of these or access locally? They're a pain in the azz to get off. I couldnt get it out the right way trying to remove it. The bolt only came so far off, then just seized up. Even with an impact gun. I had to break out the cutting wheel and cut it off.

Slow91z · 11-20-2004, 04:57 PM

That's always nice...I'm sure Brian has one lying around...Other then that maybe the help section has one, you have to be able to buy it somewhere.

GrndNatnl · 11-20-2004, 05:01 PM

Checked the Help section, and no go. I found the drum brake bar though. I tried to straighten it, but its not perfect. I'm not fond of putting parts that were bent and re-straightened back into anything. It was cheap so I got another. I still had my new Bendix shoes in the basement that I'm using again, so I'm saving some cash there as well. I had put them on about a month before obtaining the Kirban shoes.

jhuber · 11-20-2004, 05:11 PM

Guys Thanks

Collin, Which line-lock did you get? Where?

11-20-2004, 10:24 AM	#1 (permalink)
GrndNatnl Boost gives me wood. Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 5,924	Cecil last night... My night was a total waste. I only got one pass in and the boost was too low. I readjusted it, but never got another run, because my left rear wheel cylinder blew while boosting on the line and puked brake fluid. No brakes whatsoever. Pedal to the floor, and e-brake almost non existant. I had to get trailered home. I dont think I should be using the e-brake anymore. I think it may have been the cause. And I ruined the brand new soft compound shoes I just put on that are now soaked in DOT 3. Mike: How'd you end up doing?? I had to head home, so I didnt get to see how you ran. Glad you got the car back together so quickly. __________________ Matt Alexander 1987 Grand National 11.35 @ 116.7 mph -- 1.50 60' Mid-Atlantic Grand National Association (MAGNA) Club Founder & Delaware State Rep. Brainwashing children with Turbo Buick Supremacy since 2002. Last edited by GrndNatnl : 11-20-2004 at 10:27 AM.

11-20-2004, 01:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
GrndNatnl Boost gives me wood. Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 5,924	Mah oh man.. did I ever mangle some sh!t up this time. I pulled the drum off and a bunch of hardware and springs just fell out onto the ground. It bent the hell out of one of the brake shoes, bent a couple pins, bent the cross-pin with the two forks on the ends that sits between the shoes above the axle, exploded the wheel cylinder, and destroyed the backing plate. It's all apart now, so I gotta fetch hard parts and get it back together. Since I think the e-brake had some fault in maybe contorting the shoes, causing the wheel cyl pin to slip off the shoe and burst, I'm done using the e-brake launch. So I think I'm going to install a new set of soft shoes, and the S-10 wheel cyls. That damn well better allow me to hold boost on the FOOTBRAKE ALONE, or I'm getting a trans brake. If I have problems with the rear brakes locking with the cyls and soft shoes, I'll just have to deal with it. Anyone running the soft compound shoes AND S-10 cylinders have touchy rear brakes? Or are they ok. I've always heard go with one or the other. __________________ Matt Alexander 1987 Grand National 11.35 @ 116.7 mph -- 1.50 60' Mid-Atlantic Grand National Association (MAGNA) Club Founder & Delaware State Rep. Brainwashing children with Turbo Buick Supremacy since 2002.

11-20-2004, 03:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
FLR Livin' Like A Refugee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bear, Delaware Posts: 2,341	Damn Matt, that sucks. Sorry to hear about that. I just did whole new rear brakes on my car. The shoes and drums that came off were junk. Put in new cylinders, hardware, shoes, and drums. Its alot better now, and I can hold a few pounds on the line. I think I may have to readjust them though, the e-brake is holding too great. I have put about two hundred miles on my car since last weekend. Let me know how it turns out. FYI- The AutoZone at Salem Church road has the S-10 cylinders. I didnt get them when I was there (my mistake) but the should have them and the hardware. HTH. -S __________________ Scott Jackson aka "ScoJack" MAGNA member & Meth supplier '86 GN... Mild mods & Razors w/ Limited Bronsonian Modification. 11.98@111 with a 1.64 60' STOCK TURBO, IC, CAM, CONVERTOR... THROUGH THE EXHAUST!!!! '94 Silvy K1500 5.7/4L60E Some mods... Goes where chick cars cain't...

11-20-2004, 03:24 PM	#4 (permalink)
jhuber In WayToo Deep Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Blackwood, NJ Posts: 4,956	Matt, what is the difference between stock GN and S-10 wheel cyclinders? Also,where can you get the soft shoes from? __________________ 2008 MAGNA POINTS SERIES John Huber Mid-Atlantic Grand National Association (MAGNA) Assistant Club Director & New Jersey State Rep. Buick Performance Group #2 rocks to the tune of 12.25@107mph, Stock turbo #2 rocks to the tune of 11.05@118mph, TA49 turbo Huber at Cecil 2008 I'm faster then Monte Carlo fast!!!!! ...all this and a WH-1 too!!!

11-20-2004, 03:46 PM	#6 (permalink)
jhuber In WayToo Deep Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Blackwood, NJ Posts: 4,956	Thanks Scott. With the cyclinders, I guess for them to fit, the length will be the same. Must be diameter thats larger?? I hope you do not have to grind or cut to make them fit? __________________ 2008 MAGNA POINTS SERIES John Huber Mid-Atlantic Grand National Association (MAGNA) Assistant Club Director & New Jersey State Rep. Buick Performance Group #2 rocks to the tune of 12.25@107mph, Stock turbo #2 rocks to the tune of 11.05@118mph, TA49 turbo Huber at Cecil 2008 I'm faster then Monte Carlo fast!!!!! ...all this and a WH-1 too!!!

11-20-2004, 04:41 PM	#7 (permalink)
GrndNatnl Boost gives me wood. Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 5,924	Scott: How soon you forget... Pretty much everything in my entire brake system except for the lines (one replaced) is new. I just did the wheel cyls, hardware, and shoes in it back in July. So basically I broke a bunch of brand new parts. Talk about throwing money out the window. John: The S-10 spec cylinders are not larger in size, they are just built different for the manual brake S-Series trucks that they apply more pressure then the ones the Regal calls for. Just go request wheel cylinders for a 1985 Chevy S-10, 2WD, with MANUAL BRAKES. They look identicle to the ones for the Regal. I'm putting my old Bendix shoes back in for now, with the S-10 cyls. Since I'd rather not spend another $38 on soft shoes from Kirban just yet. I'll see how the cylinders hold boost. If not, then I'll get the shoes again, since they're a pretty simple change. __________________ Matt Alexander 1987 Grand National 11.35 @ 116.7 mph -- 1.50 60' Mid-Atlantic Grand National Association (MAGNA) Club Founder & Delaware State Rep. Brainwashing children with Turbo Buick Supremacy since 2002.

11-20-2004, 04:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
Slow91z Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Corydon, IN Posts: 2,003	I am running both and they are touchy, but very managable...I can hold 14 pounds easy at the line. S10 wheel cylinders have a larger diameter internally therefore they apply more pressure to the shoes with the same amount of pedal effort, they bolt right in, I got mine from Autozone, Pepboys wanted to much for them in my opinion. I just bought a rear brake bias controller from jegs (40 bux) so that I can move the bias more forward and then turn the rears back up for the track, but I wouldn't even do that if I wasn't planning on driving it in the snow this year. I also bought a line-lock, because without one I could hardly do a burnout, the rears just grabbed to much. __________________ Collin Hundley 87 GN - 6.85@99 in the 1/8th with a 1.47 60' 86 T-type - Spray painted with a bench seat Oh Yeah!!! 11.70@116 with a sucky 60' But the car has gone 7.03@96 in the 1/8th with a 1.47 60' - Parted Out

11-20-2004, 04:43 PM	#9 (permalink)
Slow91z Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Corydon, IN Posts: 2,003	Guess you're alittle quicker on the button then me Matt. __________________ Collin Hundley 87 GN - 6.85@99 in the 1/8th with a 1.47 60' 86 T-type - Spray painted with a bench seat Oh Yeah!!! 11.70@116 with a sucky 60' But the car has gone 7.03@96 in the 1/8th with a 1.47 60' - Parted Out

11-20-2004, 04:48 PM	#10 (permalink)
GrndNatnl Boost gives me wood. Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 5,924	I honestly didnt know that they had a bigger bore diameter inside. Just knew they applied more pressure somehow. Thanks for the facts on that. Ok, since I'm using the S-10 cyls I'll put the Bendix shoes in and see how touchy they are and if I can still break the wheels loose when I want. If so, I'll stick with it. If they still dont hold, I'll probably get another set of the soft shoes. Thanks for the feedback Collin! __________________ Matt Alexander 1987 Grand National 11.35 @ 116.7 mph -- 1.50 60' Mid-Atlantic Grand National Association (MAGNA) Club Founder & Delaware State Rep. Brainwashing children with Turbo Buick Supremacy since 2002.

11-20-2004, 04:53 PM	#11 (permalink)
Slow91z Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Corydon, IN Posts: 2,003	Anytime...Hopefully I'll get a chance to wire up my lin lock tomorrow (installed it today) and go do a BIG smokey. Do you think you're gonna go back to the track this year?? I'm shooting for next Fri. since I have the night off for the holiday. I've got my air bags, line lock, and 28" slicks installed, saved enough money for a half a tank of race fuel, by god this thing better fly next time out. __________________ Collin Hundley 87 GN - 6.85@99 in the 1/8th with a 1.47 60' 86 T-type - Spray painted with a bench seat Oh Yeah!!! 11.70@116 with a sucky 60' But the car has gone 7.03@96 in the 1/8th with a 1.47 60' - Parted Out

11-20-2004, 04:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
GrndNatnl Boost gives me wood. Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 5,924	I already picked up everything I need to get it back together. I think I fixed the backing plate by straightening it up where the wheel cyl mounts. Just a flat surface and a ballpeen hammer seemed to do the trick. Appears to be usable. The only thing I need is the big bolt that goes up top above the cylinder. It holds the backing plate on the flange (along with the two small bolts), and it has that thing on the front side thats right between the ears of the cylinder, and has a little T-pin that sticks out so the spring can catch onto it. Anyone have one of these or access locally? They're a pain in the azz to get off. I couldnt get it out the right way trying to remove it. The bolt only came so far off, then just seized up. Even with an impact gun. I had to break out the cutting wheel and cut it off. __________________ Matt Alexander 1987 Grand National 11.35 @ 116.7 mph -- 1.50 60' Mid-Atlantic Grand National Association (MAGNA) Club Founder & Delaware State Rep. Brainwashing children with Turbo Buick Supremacy since 2002. Last edited by GrndNatnl : 11-20-2004 at 04:56 PM.

11-20-2004, 04:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
Slow91z Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Corydon, IN Posts: 2,003	That's always nice...I'm sure Brian has one lying around...Other then that maybe the help section has one, you have to be able to buy it somewhere. __________________ Collin Hundley 87 GN - 6.85@99 in the 1/8th with a 1.47 60' 86 T-type - Spray painted with a bench seat Oh Yeah!!! 11.70@116 with a sucky 60' But the car has gone 7.03@96 in the 1/8th with a 1.47 60' - Parted Out

11-20-2004, 05:01 PM	#14 (permalink)
GrndNatnl Boost gives me wood. Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 5,924	Checked the Help section, and no go. I found the drum brake bar though. I tried to straighten it, but its not perfect. I'm not fond of putting parts that were bent and re-straightened back into anything. It was cheap so I got another. I still had my new Bendix shoes in the basement that I'm using again, so I'm saving some cash there as well. I had put them on about a month before obtaining the Kirban shoes. __________________ Matt Alexander 1987 Grand National 11.35 @ 116.7 mph -- 1.50 60' Mid-Atlantic Grand National Association (MAGNA) Club Founder & Delaware State Rep. Brainwashing children with Turbo Buick Supremacy since 2002.

11-20-2004, 05:11 PM	#15 (permalink)
jhuber In WayToo Deep Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Blackwood, NJ Posts: 4,956	Guys Thanks Collin, Which line-lock did you get? Where? __________________ 2008 MAGNA POINTS SERIES John Huber Mid-Atlantic Grand National Association (MAGNA) Assistant Club Director & New Jersey State Rep. Buick Performance Group #2 rocks to the tune of 12.25@107mph, Stock turbo #2 rocks to the tune of 11.05@118mph, TA49 turbo Huber at Cecil 2008 I'm faster then Monte Carlo fast!!!!! ...all this and a WH-1 too!!!

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