Does the turbo make a significant difference in oil temperature?

robk46 · 08-29-2008, 08:26 AM

Been reading all over the place about how bad 160 degree coolant temps are for an internal combustion engine on a daily driver, and I keep finding this single graph done at Ford on engine wear versus engine temperature. My question is, since the turbo on the GN uses engine oil for lubrication, won't that help keep the oil temp up and boil off moisture? I mean, it seems to me that our coolant temp isn't indicative of the overall temperature of the engine because we have a built in "oil warmer". Does anyone have oil temp readings? I'm curious to see what they are compared to an N/A engine.

ULYCYC · 08-29-2008, 08:43 AM

That's like saying the internal transmission cooler will keep the radiator from freezing if you have no anti-freeze and driving 50mph in -50f below temps. It sounds good but the turbo doesn't produce enough heat in non-boost operation to offset the wrong thermostat.

robk46 · 08-29-2008, 08:48 AM

That's what I was thinking too. I have a 180 thermostat and plan on having Eric @ turbotweak change the low speed fan to come on later. It comes on at 166 now. Was trying to figure out why the 160 thermostat became so popular with these cars. . .

Gnat352 · 08-29-2008, 08:50 AM

I just put in a 180* stat....I can see running a 160* if you race the car a lot, but if its not raced every week then it's fine

ULYCYC · 08-29-2008, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robk46

That's what I was thinking too. I have a 180 thermostat and plan on having Eric @ turbotweak change the low speed fan to come on later. It comes on at 166 now. Was trying to figure out why the 160 thermostat became so popular with these cars. . .

Being in Florida a 160 thermostat and fan turn on at 170-175 will be fine. Your car would average around 180 anyway with a good cooling system.

robk46 · 08-29-2008, 09:45 AM

Right now it takes forever to get to 180, because the fan kicks in at 166. We drove 20 miles yesterday with the A/C on in stop and go traffic, and it never went above 182. It was usually in the 170-175 range. I just don't want the fan on all the time if it doesn't need to be, especially on the highway where I'm sure the engine runs even cooler. The real reason for the concern is I don't want to burn my fan out. I want it to kick on and off like it should normally. I was thinking of having low speed kick on at 190, and kick off at 180. What do you guys think?

ULYCYC · 08-29-2008, 09:55 AM

The ecm turns the fan off above 45mph (factory setup). You can have Turbotweak setup turn-on- turn-off at any point you like. Most setup turn on around 172deg. I also wouldn't worry about burning out the fan unless it's a ebay knockoff.

Steve Wood · 08-29-2008, 10:12 AM

Coolant temperature is not directly related to oil temperature.

Heat in an engine is normally assumed to be dispersed in equal thirds.....there is an oxymoron for you.....thru the coolant, thru the oil, and out the exaust.

I think most believe that ideally, oil would be 200-230 degs, and, at least 170.

Water temp probably ranges 160-180 degs by most accounts.

They are not directly related to each other.

We are caught between what is ideal for wear, etc., and, what is ideal for detonation prevention....not necessarily the same thing.

turbomonte2 · 08-29-2008, 01:37 PM

Being in FL, I assume you use AC a lot...& if AC is switched on, is not fan typically activated--regardless of coolant temp--& therefore essentially running most of the time anyhow??

turbo nasty · 08-29-2008, 02:54 PM

Think oil should be around 200 degress for opt performance. Flow, heat wicking, etc

gbsean · 08-29-2008, 03:18 PM

with my chip (Bob Bailey) you can program the fan for 2 settings

Fan Race Mode: In normal mode, the engine cooling fan is programmed to turn on at 175 degrees, and off at 170 degrees. When Fan Race Mode is enabled, the cooling fan turns on at 165 degrees, and off at 150. This essentially leaves the fan turned on all the time after initial warm-up.

did 3 runs on Sunday with Fan Race Mode and the highest it spiked for a few secs was 175* and it was about 88* air temp and 95* track temp.what I like about this feature is I wired my Trans/oil cooler into the dual fans...so in race mode the Fan on that cooler is also running...

turbomonte2 · 08-29-2008, 07:31 PM

I don't remember anything posed in original questioning that had to do with "racing"--just normal driving...

Now, try "normal driving" in FL w/o A/C on & you'll have roasted almonds. And, if you have your A/C on--your fan best be running for freon condensing--& that will, of course, frequently lead to lower operating temps--often near/closer to thermostat rated temperature.

Installing a higher-temp rated thermostat is the only realistic solution to this dilemma.

gbsean · 08-29-2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULYCYC

Being in Florida a 160 thermostat and fan turn on at 170-175 will be fine. Your car would average around 180 anyway with a good cooling system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbomonte2

I don't remember anything posed in original questioning that had to do with "racing"--just normal driving...

Now, try "normal driving" in FL w/o A/C on & you'll have roasted almonds. And, if you have your A/C on--your fan best be running for freon condensing--& that will, of course, frequently lead to lower operating temps--often near/closer to thermostat rated temperature.

Installing a higher-temp rated thermostat is the only realistic solution to this dilemma.

hence having a chip that can do both.....

turbomonte2 · 08-31-2008, 10:50 AM

I'm now giving-up on this thread...

salvageV6 · 09-01-2008, 01:09 PM

I've been running the 160 stat. for 20 years.

Oil temps. range from 170 in the NE winter to 220 in the summer A/C on accelerating on the highway.

Peak seen on the gauge was 240 degrees racing in 85 degree temps.

Usually around 200 degrees on the highway at 70mph cruising 3 seasons.

In the winter it would be around 180 degrees under 30 degree temps.

160-170 degrees in under 5 degree or so temps.

If you floor the car to get on the highway or test it every now and then, and then cruise a bit at 70 I think you'll boil the moisture off your oil well enough.

Only made it 176K so far however, haven't checked for wear yet, or rust inside for that matter.

Fan is programmed race mode on the Extender Extreme chip for 3 seasons and set to normal 175, I believe, degrees on point in the winter.

If I lived in FL I'd run the 160 stat. for sure and keep the fan on a lot.

Mechanical Autometer oil temp. gauge in one of the oil cooler lines.

I'd also bet some water would vaporize in the turbo bearing area as well.

I do oil and filter changes every 3K to 4K usually closer to 3K.

Just my .02 and some general data pulled from memory not charts.

08-29-2008, 08:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
robk46 Still learning Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hobe Sound, Fl. Posts: 508	Does the turbo make a significant difference in oil temperature? Been reading all over the place about how bad 160 degree coolant temps are for an internal combustion engine on a daily driver, and I keep finding this single graph done at Ford on engine wear versus engine temperature. My question is, since the turbo on the GN uses engine oil for lubrication, won't that help keep the oil temp up and boil off moisture? I mean, it seems to me that our coolant temp isn't indicative of the overall temperature of the engine because we have a built in "oil warmer". Does anyone have oil temp readings? I'm curious to see what they are compared to an N/A engine. __________________ Bringing an '86 GN back from the dead, one part at a time. WalBro 340, Racetronix hotwire kit, stock turbo/injectors, 237 regulator, Qboost controller, no cat, Turbotweak 93 octane chip. 83k original miles, RJC Powerplate, Pypes stainless exhaust, 204/214 cam.

08-29-2008, 08:43 AM	#2 (permalink)
ULYCYC Fuhgeddaboudit Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 16,721	That's like saying the internal transmission cooler will keep the radiator from freezing if you have no anti-freeze and driving 50mph in -50f below temps. It sounds good but the turbo doesn't produce enough heat in non-boost operation to offset the wrong thermostat. __________________ ED BAKER 87-T, Maplight equipped rear view mirror.. 93 PARK AVE"SUPERCHARGED" BPG#1458 My Photo Page buickperformancegroup.com "As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."---H.L. Mencken 1927 Last edited by ULYCYC : 08-29-2008 at 09:04 AM.

08-29-2008, 08:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
robk46 Still learning Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hobe Sound, Fl. Posts: 508	That's what I was thinking too. I have a 180 thermostat and plan on having Eric @ turbotweak change the low speed fan to come on later. It comes on at 166 now. Was trying to figure out why the 160 thermostat became so popular with these cars. . . __________________ Bringing an '86 GN back from the dead, one part at a time. WalBro 340, Racetronix hotwire kit, stock turbo/injectors, 237 regulator, Qboost controller, no cat, Turbotweak 93 octane chip. 83k original miles, RJC Powerplate, Pypes stainless exhaust, 204/214 cam.

08-29-2008, 08:50 AM	#4 (permalink)
Gnat352 JCC RACING Join Date: May 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 4,293	I just put in a 180* stat....I can see running a 160* if you race the car a lot, but if its not raced every week then it's fine __________________ FERRET JOE JCC RACING MEMBER #1951 87 "T" TE60,,60# injectors/TT Alky Chip,,ADJ FPR,,ADJ Wastegate,,,RJC Boost Controller,,Razor Alky,,3" SE Turbo DP,,Cotton Performance 3" Dual Exhaust,,5 angle valvjob/bowl work,,307 hotwired,,F-Body Radiator,,Casper's Dual Fans,,ATR Bar,,Comp 980's,,Powerlogger,,ScanMaster 2.1,,RJC Power Plate,,UMi Lowers,,Bilstiens in all corners,,New Springs,,Dutt Neck IC,,ART CARR 9.5 NLU Converter,,DYNOTECH HI-PRO TRANS, Nitto's....thats it for now...... 11.90 @110mph with 21PSI on pump and alky... 1.61 60ft on Nitto's...

08-29-2008, 09:45 AM	#6 (permalink)
robk46 Still learning Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hobe Sound, Fl. Posts: 508	Right now it takes forever to get to 180, because the fan kicks in at 166. We drove 20 miles yesterday with the A/C on in stop and go traffic, and it never went above 182. It was usually in the 170-175 range. I just don't want the fan on all the time if it doesn't need to be, especially on the highway where I'm sure the engine runs even cooler. The real reason for the concern is I don't want to burn my fan out. I want it to kick on and off like it should normally. I was thinking of having low speed kick on at 190, and kick off at 180. What do you guys think? __________________ Bringing an '86 GN back from the dead, one part at a time. WalBro 340, Racetronix hotwire kit, stock turbo/injectors, 237 regulator, Qboost controller, no cat, Turbotweak 93 octane chip. 83k original miles, RJC Powerplate, Pypes stainless exhaust, 204/214 cam.

08-29-2008, 09:55 AM	#7 (permalink)
ULYCYC Fuhgeddaboudit Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 16,721	The ecm turns the fan off above 45mph (factory setup). You can have Turbotweak setup turn-on- turn-off at any point you like. Most setup turn on around 172deg. I also wouldn't worry about burning out the fan unless it's a ebay knockoff. __________________ ED BAKER 87-T, Maplight equipped rear view mirror.. 93 PARK AVE"SUPERCHARGED" BPG#1458 My Photo Page buickperformancegroup.com "As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."---H.L. Mencken 1927

08-29-2008, 10:12 AM	#8 (permalink)
Steve Wood An American American Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: East of Eden, Texas Posts: 37,175	Coolant temperature is not directly related to oil temperature. Heat in an engine is normally assumed to be dispersed in equal thirds.....there is an oxymoron for you.....thru the coolant, thru the oil, and out the exaust. I think most believe that ideally, oil would be 200-230 degs, and, at least 170. Water temp probably ranges 160-180 degs by most accounts. They are not directly related to each other. We are caught between what is ideal for wear, etc., and, what is ideal for detonation prevention....not necessarily the same thing. __________________ ------------------ 'A government that is big enough to give you everything you want, is also big enough to take away everything you have.' - Thomas Jefferson I think one should worry more when people are lining up to get out of a country rather than into it. If they're sneaking in, we must be doing something right. The Chronicles of Zap, from the early 21st century www.vortexbuicks-etc.com

08-29-2008, 01:37 PM	#9 (permalink)
turbomonte2 Older--but Getting Wiser Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 2,020	Being in FL, I assume you use AC a lot...& if AC is switched on, is not fan typically activated--regardless of coolant temp--& therefore essentially running most of the time anyhow?? __________________ Monte 87GN, TE60, 23#, 60#Injrs, 214/214 hyd roller, Mild-ported hds & int, Dutt Nk, V booster, Old-style SMC alky, Q-Boost, Remote Oil Filter/Turbo Saver, KB 3" down & test pipe w/ cut-out, TTwk93-alky, SM 2.1, 3000 stall CK 10.5" L/U, CK Stg2 tranny kit+ some hard parts, Ext trans cooler, Dual 2.5" Hookers, Frt & bk braces, Hollow 36mm frt bar + Bilsteins, Air Bags + KYBs, Hotwired Wlbro/Racetronix GSS340M(new), 255x60x15 street meats, Factory Astroroof...Just replaced as my Daily-Driver by a '00 Ford Focus. Some other stuff laying around: 51 Merc Cpe, 49 Ford/T-Bird, 83 Riviera Conv, 96 F-150 5.8L "Pig" 4x4 tow vehicle, '00 Ford Focus as "new" Daily Driver...

08-29-2008, 02:54 PM	#10 (permalink)
turbo nasty Boost Sux my Wallet Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast area Posts: 1,119	Think oil should be around 200 degress for opt performance. Flow, heat wicking, etc __________________ 87 GN (3480lbs w/me & 1/2 tank) GT3255E, ESP FMIC, Razors Alky, Turbosaver, TA Headers, THDP w/test, ATR crossflow, TT, 38's, hopped up trans, Pats 10" 3k l/u, QA1r's, UMI Ups (adj) and lows, HR bar, MT DR's. 2003 G35 Coupe Blk on BLk, JDM Clears, 18's, Prem PKG, Lthr, Bose....wifes car 2005 Harleys : Wide Glide & Duece ...Mucho Bling

08-29-2008, 03:18 PM	#11 (permalink)
gbsean 1 of 64,000,000 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Flanders, N.J. Posts: 10,656	with my chip (Bob Bailey) you can program the fan for 2 settings Fan Race Mode: In normal mode, the engine cooling fan is programmed to turn on at 175 degrees, and off at 170 degrees. When Fan Race Mode is enabled, the cooling fan turns on at 165 degrees, and off at 150. This essentially leaves the fan turned on all the time after initial warm-up. did 3 runs on Sunday with Fan Race Mode and the highest it spiked for a few secs was 175* and it was about 88* air temp and 95* track temp.what I like about this feature is I wired my Trans/oil cooler into the dual fans...so in race mode the Fan on that cooler is also running... __________________ 11.599 @ 119.91 eat that Ferret Joe and JoeNational Tuning in Progress Sean Ryder Buick Performance Group Vice-Chairman www.buickperformancegroup.com see thread for Engine Specs http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/wa...tml#post680751 happy now Rich

08-29-2008, 07:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
turbomonte2 Older--but Getting Wiser Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 2,020	I don't remember anything posed in original questioning that had to do with "racing"--just normal driving... Now, try "normal driving" in FL w/o A/C on & you'll have roasted almonds. And, if you have your A/C on--your fan best be running for freon condensing--& that will, of course, frequently lead to lower operating temps--often near/closer to thermostat rated temperature. Installing a higher-temp rated thermostat is the only realistic solution to this dilemma.

08-31-2008, 10:50 AM	#14 (permalink)
turbomonte2 Older--but Getting Wiser Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 2,020	I'm now giving-up on this thread...

09-01-2008, 01:09 PM	#15 (permalink)
salvageV6 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 6,431	I've been running the 160 stat. for 20 years. Oil temps. range from 170 in the NE winter to 220 in the summer A/C on accelerating on the highway. Peak seen on the gauge was 240 degrees racing in 85 degree temps. Usually around 200 degrees on the highway at 70mph cruising 3 seasons. In the winter it would be around 180 degrees under 30 degree temps. 160-170 degrees in under 5 degree or so temps. If you floor the car to get on the highway or test it every now and then, and then cruise a bit at 70 I think you'll boil the moisture off your oil well enough. Only made it 176K so far however, haven't checked for wear yet, or rust inside for that matter. Fan is programmed race mode on the Extender Extreme chip for 3 seasons and set to normal 175, I believe, degrees on point in the winter. If I lived in FL I'd run the 160 stat. for sure and keep the fan on a lot. Mechanical Autometer oil temp. gauge in one of the oil cooler lines. I'd also bet some water would vaporize in the turbo bearing area as well. I do oil and filter changes every 3K to 4K usually closer to 3K. Just my .02 and some general data pulled from memory not charts.

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