Is this the new Rotella?

[YI_work]

I went to Sam's Club today to buy a few more cases before they do away with the zinc. Last month they had the same old bottle(jug) this month it's this one. Did they change the formula already? The API ratings are different too

[YI_work]

Found this about it Rotella

[Steve Wood]

I believe that Shell passed the requirements for ci-4 plus without changing the formulation of the existing Rotella so it is the same formula.

The oils that are marked CJ, or, have the starburst symbols are the ones that are low in zddp as I understand it.

[YI_work]

I updated the pictures with old and new so it'll be easier for some to tell the differance

[DrTurbonicus]

Is Shell Rotella® T motor oil going to have less zinc in 2007?


Yes.

The API CJ-4 (next generation) Shell ROTELLA® T multigrade motor oil will have a slightly lower level of zinc than the current API API CI-4 PLUS Shell ROTELLA® T.

Zinc is typically used as part of the anti-wear system within the oil. However, less zinc in API CJ-4 oils compared with API CI-4 PLUS oils does not mean increased wear.

In fact, wear protection is one of the key areas where the API CJ-4 category provides improvements over API CI-4 PLUS. (Other areas include; oxidation stability and soot control).

The new API CJ-4 Shell ROTELLA® T multigrade motor oil also meets the requirements of earlier API performance categories such as API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, as well as others, and can be used in engines specifying any of these performance categories.
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[Steve Wood]

Experience is more important than claims....we know that flat tappet cams fail more often in engines with low zddp content than in those that have a higher zddp content in the oil.

Perhaps, something will come along that surpasses it when dealing with flat tappet cams, but....I will wait for it to be proven. Most engines have roller tappet cams these days, and, problems would be expected to be less.

[acme racing]

Originally Posted by YI_work

I went to Sam's Club today to buy a few more cases before they do away with the zinc. Last month they had the same old bottle(jug) this month it's this one. Did they change the formula already? The API ratings are different too

Here's some info about Zinc in oil, just buy what Porsche recomends since they have overhead cams riding atop of the cams (shim/bucket), no rollers



From: http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html



Oil

The purpose of proper lubrication is to provide a physical barrier (oil film) that separates moving parts reducing wear and friction. Oil also supplies cooling to critical engine components, such as bearings. Detergent oils contain dispersants, friction modifiers, and anti-wear additives. They carry away contaminants such as wear particulates and neutralize acids that are formed by combustion byproducts and the natural breakdown of oil. Not all motor oils are created equally when it comes to the levels of additives and detergents used. The focus of this study is on the levels of zinc and phosphorus found in motor oils, more exactly, the zinc (Zn) and phosphorus (P) that makes up the anti-wear additive ZDDP, zinc dialkyl dithiosphosphate.

What general characteristics make motor oils specifically well suited to an aircooled engine? Aside from recommendations issued by Porsche, what makes a good oil? These oils must be thermally stable, having a very high flashpoint, and must “maintain proper lubrication and protect vital engine components under the extreme pressure and the high temperature conditions” found in aircooled Porsches. Porsche recommends and uses Mobil 1 0w40 as a factory fill and their 15w50 is a popular choice used by many for their aircooled boxer engines year round in a wide range of climates.

Porsche’s recommendation in hand, our analysis found that all recent formulations of Mobil lubricants tested, including Mobil 1, have similar 0.14% Zn and 0.14% P content. (Please note that this may only be true of the viscosities tested - 15w50, 20w50, and the Delvac 5w40 and 15w40). Since we are discussing aircooled engines, it is worth noting that the tested Mobil lubricants also contained an unexpected 0.03% boron (B), exceeded only by the levels found in Harley Davidson’s SYN3 motor oil, which is specifically formulated for an aircooled engine. So what makes any other oil so different from what Porsche recommends?

Oil companies have been cutting back on the use of Zn and P as anti-wear additives. Zn and P have been found to be bad for catalytic converters. This reduction is a mandate issued by API**, American Petroleum Institute, who is in charge of developing standing standards for motor oils. In 1996, API introduced the API SJ classification to reduce these levels to 0.10% or less. The latest API standard for car oils calls for a zinc content less than 0.08% to reduce sulfur, carbon monoxide, and hydrocarbon emissions .

To offset the reduction of zinc and phosphorus levels required indirectly by the EPA**, molybdenum disulfide content has been increased. Although considered an anti-wear additive, the use of “moly” has been considered a way of increasing fuel economy requirements of the CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy, enacted by Congress in 1975), and does not address wear issues of older vehicles that require higher levels of Zn and P. That said, many manufacturer specific motor oils do not have moly at all and have alternatively reduced oil viscosities as a way of improving fuel economy - i.e. 5w20 multi-grade oils. As a result of this mandate for longer emissions warranties, some motor oils now have as little as 0.05% zinc and phosphorus and many of the motor oils we tested did not have the levels as found in, for example, Mobil 1. In comparison, an API SE rated sample of Kendal GT-1 motor oil we acquired pre-dating today’s limited Zn and P mandates contained 0.14% Zn and 0.12% P. Given Porsche’s recommendation of Mobil 1 and its 0.14% zinc and phosphorus content, it can be concluded that any given motor oil should have a minimum of 0.14% zinc and 0.12% phosphorus for aircooled engines.

**The EPA does not regulate additive levels, but they have mandated longer factory warranties for emissions controls such as catalytic convertors, and it is the manufacturers reducing the levels of anti-wear additives to reduce their negative effect on these expensive warranty items.

However, it is worth noting that these new API guidelines do not apply to “racing,” “severe duty,” or any motor oils that do not carry an API “starburst” seal . Motor oils meeting “Energy Conserving I or II” standards should be avoided, as should 10w40 and 5w50 grades, because of their lack of shear-stability and relatively high amount of viscosity improvers. On the other hand, a 15w40 viscosity oil is very shear stable, second only to 20w50, making both grades excellent choices for aircooled engines. Compared to conventional oils, synthetics, which are typically lacking in viscosity improvers, have higher viscosities and improved resistance to thinning at high temperatures and thickening at low temperatures. For those concerned with leaks, an acceptable compromise is the use of group III synthetics, formulated from very highly refined petroleum bases, less likely to form new leaks or make existing ones worse, while providing improved protection over conventional motor oils. Most, but not all, conventional and synthetic mixed-fleet, severe duty, and racing motor oils meet or exceed the levels of Zn and P found in Mobil 1, as recommended by Porsche.

Failure to use the right oil, use proper filtration, or observe proper changing intervals can affect the performance of even the best motor oil. This also includes changing the oil too often. Against conventional wisdom, engine wear decreases as oil ages to a certain extent, which means that changing your oil more frequently actually causes engine wear; these findings were substantiated by studies conducted by the auto manufacturers and petroleum companies. With this knowledge in hand, using a quality motor oil with proper filtration and suggested drain intervals, as recommended by Porsche, is the best thing to do for your engine and to protect your investment.

Charles L Navarro & Tammy E Hellings
LN Engineering


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Q&A

Have questions? Submit them to us by emailing info@lnengineering.com and we'll post them if your questions are selected. Have an oil you would like us to test and compare, let us know!

What non-detergent oil can I use when breaking in a new engine?

Just because non-detergent oil is cheap, it doesn't mean you should use a cheap non-detergent oil. I would recommend using the highest quality oil regardless, and Exxon Aviation Piston Engine Oil is one such oil. Meets SAE J1966 spec for aircraft piston engines for non-detergent break-in lubricant. Only drawback is the limited choices for viscosities. 20w50 would work for the summer months or for break-in on a dyno in controlled climates. This is probably the best quality non-detergent oil available, for those who prefer to use such an oil on a new engine. This is the oil we have used and just boost the ZDDP with GM EOS additives. Available from http://www.eliteetc.com/exoil.html. $41.00 case of 12 qts plus shipping for 20w50.

How should I break in my engine?

If you have questions on how you should break in an engine and proper break in procedure, we recommend reading the following articles about the subject:

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/re...s/engnbrkn.htm
What motor oils had the .12% levels of zinc and phosphorus recommended?

Although we are continuously testing oils, here are the results thus far. We have included a large cross section of racing, diesel, motorcycle, and manufacturer specific oils, as well as some additives typically sold at your local flaps for comparison. If you want complete unabridged results, they are available for purchase for a small fee. The results shown below, along with a few comments from myself are available in pdf for download here.

[DrTurbonicus]

Thanks for the great post & the links, ACME!

[Ormand]

The link to RedLine was interesting, but it's hard to have much faith in their anyalysis. For one thing, Porsche engines have been water cooled since 1997, and you would think that the guys at RedLine might know that. And even though the 911 engine has rocker arms, with an adjusting screw, NOT a bucket and shims, the difference in loads and materials in so great that it would be hard to draw any conclusion relative to a push rod Buick engine. Since the air cooled engines went away before the reduction in zinc and phosphorus took place, tech data relative to those engines is not going to provide much info on the current problems with flat tappet cams.

[acme racing]

Originally Posted by Ormand

The link to RedLine was interesting, but it's hard to have much faith in their anyalysis. For one thing, Porsche engines have been water cooled since 1997, and you would think that the guys at RedLine might know that. And even though the 911 engine has rocker arms, with an adjusting screw, NOT a bucket and shims, the difference in loads and materials in so great that it would be hard to draw any conclusion relative to a push rod Buick engine. Since the air cooled engines went away before the reduction in zinc and phosphorus took place, tech data relative to those engines is not going to provide much info on the current problems with flat tappet cams.

I was talking about the cam/cup (or bucket) set-up on the new 911 since Porsche specifies 0-40 Mobil 1, which doesn't have the starburst seal, in all their engines, even the factory fill.


Click on variCam at "more infomation" in link.

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/91...ndetail/drive/

[Phil]

Is all the good oil going away?

[Ormand]

Porsche specifies 0-40 Mobil 1, which doesn't have the starburst seal

That's interesting. I wonder if the european standards are different, and some of us are suffering from some wear problems because of unique emmissions equipment for the USA- or maybe for California, which is close to the USA.

[DrTurbonicus]

Started using the 0-40 Mobil 1 the first month it became available.

It's much easier to find these days.

[acme racing]

Porsche is picky about what kind of oil in their engines . Mobil's 0-40 doesn't have the Starburst seal or ILSAC GF-4 rating, so it suppose to have the .14% Zinc, not the .08% in the "New" rating oils.
Maybe Rotella will have a no, "Starburst " rating oil too for old trucks


Product Description

Mobil 1 0W-40 is the most advanced performance synthetic engine oil designed to provide ultimate cleaning power, wear protection and overall performance. Mobil 1 0W-40, European Car Formula (NA) or Protection Formula (EU), exceeds the requirements of the leading industry and car manufacturers' standards required for newer modern gasoline and diesel powered automobile engines. The Mobil 1 Technology is race proven and the choice of NASCAR racing. Mobil 1 0W-40 is perfect for all types of vehicles anywhere in the world and has the performance reserve to protect when conventional engine oils cannot. It is the first choice at the factory for the some of the world's finest performance vehicles: Mercedes-Benz AMG, Porsche, and Aston Martin.





http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...il_1_0W-40.asp


http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...l_1_0W-40.aspx

[NO1B4ME]

The other day I noticed this thread about the reduction of zinc in the new formulation of ROTELLA '07 here are a couple of celluar pics,sorry for the blurriness....it's not a NIKON ....but from the pics the ratings are the same as the old Rotella ????? I guess Shell Canada hasn't got the telegram to change the formula based on the pics we just have the new fancy label with the old formula