TB's, Gimmick parts, Gurus, GN/T

[GNT]

Years back my street car was running 10.4’s@128 MPH. This car was driven every day with this combo for 3 years until the DOTC incident right after a cam change. My combo was bone stock 100K mile short block, ported iron heads and intake, stock upper and bone stock GM throttle body, stock unported headers, hooker 2.5 exhaust, home made front mount intercooler, 55 lb. injectors , 9 inch AC converter, stock rear suspension, air bags, 28X10 MT slicks, DFI and 2 external pumps, TC45 turbo that is now on Kendall’s car.

I do not see that the car would have picked up 2.5 tenths with a TB and upper change. I am sorry; I just do not see it. If that were true, TB/Upper and a set of headers would have put me in the 9’s? BS! I have installed many of these modified stock and billet throttle bodies over the years and have yet to see any gain at the track. I have seen the same car with no changes what so ever and close to the same weather and track conditions pick up 2-3 tenths for no reason what so ever or lose the same amount for no reason.

I am sure I could have spent 495.00 on billet TB and upper, 900.00 on headers, 100.00 on a volt booster, 1100 on a front mount, 650.00 on a SS DP and waste gate, 200.00 on a trans break, 500.00 on rear upper and lower bars, 2500.00 on a built up short block, 900.00 on a roller cam, 1600.00 on some alum heads, 700.00 on some SS exhaust, and a few hundred more dollars on some chrome and polished parts and picked up MAYBE a tenth for my 10000.00 extra investment.

Sorry if I got a little carried away here but my point is, over half the stuff I see folks bolting on their cars have little if no impact on performance. I see countless 11 and 12 second cars built by some FL gurus and others running GN1 heads, roller cams, Speed Pro computers and such. I see far to many cars going 11.50’s with GN1 heads, 70MM TB’s large uppers, SS headers, big dollar transmissions and converters, front mount intercoolers, large turbos, and lots of other gimmick bolt on parts that are simply not needed.

After the last GS Extra came out my name was left out when the subject of TR engine builders came up I got really pissed. I have been building motors for these car for over 10 years and as far as I know am the only one that really builds motors for these cars in house in the state. I will not say any names but you all know who you are and know that I have had to fix messed up cars and motors for about every so called guru in the state.

I guess if I sold 1000.00’s of dollars worth of unnecessary parts to every customer that I have I would have plenty of money to spend on a car to show up at Buick meets with and show off, but I don’t and have no plans to ever do so. I am so disgusted with some people picking up short blocks from some machine shop and saying they built the motor after bolting heads and oil pan on it, or selling parts at below retail cost and not charging sales tax due the fact they work out of their home I could just puke.

I use the best machinist in the state http://www.gntperformance.com/machine
And I keep a VERY clean shop, http://www.gntperformance.com/db/ that I have down sized about 6 months ago due to the large amount of work load I had. 10-12 TR’s at once was a little much for me.

Due to the over abundance of gurus in FL and my unwillingness to play the game of selling parts just to make profit along with some personal problems I will be closing the doors at GN/T a the end of this month. If I have to sell 1600.00 heads and 900.00 headers for high 11 sec cars and cheat the state out of sales tax to be competitive then I have no choice but to call it quits.

Dave
GN/T

PS, Mike please remove my banner add. Thanks

[TurboJim]

You will be missed my friend.

Dont lose my number, I'm always here man...

Respectfully:
Jim Testa

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Jim Testa
1986 Regal T-Type
Stock block, Turbomotion ported heads, PTE 210 roller cam, GNT ported intake, PTE Plenum, 70mm TB, PTE FM IC, MSD 50's, TE61, TPS-TEC, JT Chip, JT 200R4, Vigilante 2800 LU convertor, JT Boxed lower arms, working on girlde....

[Chad Schwartz]

Write a step by step recipe buildup document from 13's to mid 10's and submit it to gnttype.org. I'm sure everyone would love to see the cheapest way possible to run the #'s.

Good luck in the future.
------------------
Chad Schwartz (Mr. URL Sir-Links-A-Lot)
mailto:rad87gn@yahoo.comrad87gn@yahoo.com</A>
"The Need For Speed" Website
Cars, pictures, movies, screen savers, tech info, links, and more!


[This message has been edited by Chad Schwartz (edited December 02, 2000).]

[Dan Smith]

I wish you the BEST, Dave. You are truly a TR pioneer.

[RobV6]

I think it's sad when honest men,have to
say goodbye.People are always trying to sell
you something.
Goodluck,wish you had been in NY.
PS. I also think a build up wpuld be great.
Sort of a guideline.

[GinoRin]

Dave,
Good luck with whatever you decide to do after GN/T closes. For some reason, I think you'll still be around for awhile, and I wouldnt be surprised to see you spin off into another company when your partner leaves. I know exactly what you mean with gimmick parts. They're definately helpful, but people seem to want to spend less time listening and tuning and more time forkin' over the cash to go faster with less work. My car has the MPH to hit a real low 11s or maybe even a 10.99 with perfect traction, and I dont have any motorwork, no heads, no cam, stock throttlebody and plenum, and its driven daily in summer. I would really like to see your combo, but I'm waiting to see the hard numbers from your secret combo in a couple weeks. If anyone out there doesn't know what I'm talking about, just be patient for a couple weeks and you'll all know what this is about &gt;

Good Luck Dave.

Gino Rinaldi
Brookfield,Wisconsin Buick GSCA # 1583
87 GN 49k miles, 11.406@120.87 26psi NEW BEST!
87 GN 99k miles, Super Clean Bone Stock Daily Driver *FOR SALE*
85 T-Type black with blackout rolling chassis. *FOR SALE*
GINOSCRAP@aol.com http://www.pce-online.com/buick

[YGETV8]

Dave,

Best of luck to you! I hope what Gino says is true, about you "hangin' in there" (he seems to know something we don't )!

Just wanted to go on record as saying that I have never been a pushy saleperson. Ask any of my current, former, or present TB customers: I do not make any outrageous claims for my work... I just make it available to those that desire to have it done. Some can obviously make better use of it than others. I did it to my own cars so that I know it's done and my combos can "grow into it", if not take advantage of it at the current time.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... I have read about 9 second cars going through the stock TB! It can be done! Yes, some of us do take the easier way out by maybe modifying or buying something we don't really "need" yet... I am guilty of that. On the other hand, I don't get to the track but a few times a year. If I could go every weekend (that would be COOL! ), maybe I could squeeze more out of my TRs without some of their go fast parts. Relying on a butt dyno 99% of the time can be tough, so sometimes we buy something that "makes sense", and hope it helps now, or know it'll help in the future.

I'll probably put a bigger turbo on my WE4 before it really needs it, and probably a bigger one than I need, but it'll make my mid 11 second goals easier to attain.

I'm not saying any of this to be facetious (sp?), and I hope you understand my point.

Best wishes, Dave, in whatever it is you do... but, we really can't afford to lose any more TR gurus!


------------------
Jay Jackson
(the 62MM TB guy!)
http://hometown.aol.com/ygettv8/myhomepageindex.html

"YGETV8" '86 gray T-Type 94K... high tens...?? (STILL "some assembly required"!) Girdled stock block, Stealth turbo, 20 row IC, 65mm "stock" TB, PI 9.5" 7-disc, Jimmy's Trans, P&P heads, 218/218, Hooker Headers, 3" D.P., HKS w.g., thumbwheel chip, and more... (ran 11.755@117.89 with the stock long block, DOTs, thru the muff, & on pump gas!)

'86 GN "Beater"... 137K driver w/ P&P stock turbo, 21.5 psi boost, K&N, 3" DP and ported elbow, 93 chip, 30# inj., Walbro 307, AFPR, new valve springs, alum. drums, 2.5" IC neck, 62mm TB/upper, and that's about it! Best ET: 12.61 (on 215/65 all season radials!); best MPH: 111.97!

'87 WE4 59K ... GNX wheels, 93 chip, ported stock turbo, 21 psi boost, AFPR, Blue Tops, Borla exhaust, K&N, alum. drums... 'bout it! 12.979@106.27 on 265/50-16 radial TAs on it's maiden voyage to the track!!

[GinoRin]

Jay,
I was not in any way trying to knock your throttlebody and upper intake plenum mods, so if you took it that way please accept my apologies. I think what you're doing is great, and I also think its a worthwile mod for a street driven car (which 99% of TRs are). I was just trying to drive home the fact that you don't need a $450 70mm throttlebody and plenum if you want to go fast. You kind of touched on that yourself by explaining the part throttle and wide open throttle characteristics of the throttlebody, and whether or not the turbo is generating enough air to fill the TB completely @ WOT. Sorry for any confusion Jay, and once again, Good Luck Dave

Gino Rinaldi
Brookfield,Wisconsin Buick GSCA # 1583
87 GN 49k miles, 11.406@120.87 26psi NEW BEST!
87 GN 99k miles, Super Clean Bone Stock Daily Driver *FOR SALE*
85 T-Type black with blackout rolling chassis. *FOR SALE*
GINOSCRAP@aol.com http://www.pce-online.com/buick

[TaTaDave]

Dave, I suppose you did not sell parts that were not needed. I remember that I brought you my TR to you that you piled on about $1400 parts and labor. You returned the car to me with the EXACT SAME problem that I brought it to you to fix. You made me feel like you were doing me a favor on the $1400. Cutting me a break as you said. I stewed about that for a long time. But I never bad mouthed you. But I changed my mind. Because once again you are full of **** with this thread.
After I finally got my car back and was asking about GNT quality of work, I got the same answer from ALL the folks I asked. SUCKED. Quality of worked sucked. Crappy, Shabby, Over Inflated, didn’t do what he said he was going to do, shitty, got porked, ripped off to name some of the adjectives.
If you are going out of business because other Gurus are working out of their garage, not charging sales tax or selling parts below retail then I think you are not being honest with yourself. You have driven yourself out of business. The Buick community is a tight group, as you know. Word of mouth will make or break you. There should not be any problem with other Gurus that work out of their garage or don’t build their own shortblocks. You had a beautiful shop to take out the Gurus. But you elected to let other people work on your customer cars. QC sucked. And the bullshit. You were full of so much bullshit I had to go to your shop with hip boots on. It pisses me off when I am listening to Bullshit as it insulting.
Time to get a haircut, buy some shoes and get a job. I hear that Publix will hire anyone as a bagger. You can tell those stories of the 10:40s everyday TR to the other baggers or maybe even the cashiers.
By the way, the ultimate problem with my TR was a bogus valve job. All the used and new parts you threw at this car could not fix this mechanical problem. But I guess a compression test was too much to ask. TaTaDave

[GinoRin]

TaTaDave,
The deal you had with Dave is between you and him, but my God, man! All that I can say is that I dealt with Dave on a few different occassions and he was always more than fair and willing to lend some advice, even if I wasn't buying parts from him, and I rarely needed any because he was always albe to help me troubleshoot my problem. There are always 2 sides to the story, and the grass is always greener on the other side. I think every vendor has had some sour deals, but ****, noone deserves to get publically trashed like that.

Just my .02

Gino Rinaldi
Brookfield,Wisconsin Buick GSCA # 1583
87 GN 49k miles, 11.406@120.87 26psi NEW BEST!
87 GN 99k miles, Super Clean Bone Stock Daily Driver *FOR SALE*
85 T-Type black with blackout rolling chassis. *FOR SALE*
GINOSCRAP@aol.com http://www.pce-online.com/buick

[GNT]

A personal attack post of this kind does not even deserve a reply but I will make a short one and only one.

Fist of all when you publicly trash someone it is customary to give your name.

If you are so unhappy that you feel the need to sign on this board just to trash me then you really need to bring those parts back to me for a refund and talk the trash that you posted here about me face to face. Simply come to my shop and get your money back. You have chosen to be anonymous, I have no clue who you are or what your problem is or was but in the future you might try contacting the person you are unhappy with and talking about the problem before flaming them. 1400.00 is a lot of money to be out. I would be really pissed if I were screwed out of that kind of money and would be calling not posting. I feel really bad that you carry this kind of anger and have been stewing on it. I look forward to you coming by so we can straighten this out. I would have sent you this privet but I do not believe that upyourass@aol.com is a valid address. Fact is, I do not believe anything in your post is valid but in the remote chance that it is you know what you can do about it. Anything more posted here will be ignored, if you have a real problem then lets take care of it.

Dave

[TurboJim]

Originally posted by TaTaDave:
Dave, I suppose you did not sell parts that were not needed. I remember that I brought you my TR to you that you piled on about $1400 parts and labor. You returned the car to me with the EXACT SAME problem that I brought it to you to fix.

Dont you think it might prove more productive to bring your problem to Dave's attention? Instead of trashing a guy who is at least relatively honest, and deserves the opportunity to make it right? Did you even TELL Dave that the car wasnt right? Or did you take your car somewhere else?

You made me feel like you were doing me a favor on the $1400. Cutting me a break as you said. I stewed about that for a long time. But I never bad mouthed you. But I changed my mind. Because once again you are full of **** with this thread.

What was done to the car? Maybe you DID get a deal. What was the car brough in for? What did you recieve? Stop talking **** without giving the whole story.

After I finally got my car back and was asking about GNT quality of work, I got the same answer from ALL the folks I asked. SUCKED. Quality of worked sucked. Crappy, Shabby, Over Inflated, didn’t do what he said he was going to do, shitty, got porked, ripped off to name some of the adjectives.

Thats funny, I dont see anyone else saying that. I know of only 2 people who didnt have the balls to bring the car back to Dave for a problem to be recitified. And YES, I am in the biz, so I know how you people can be...

If you are going out of business because other Gurus are working out of their garage, not charging sales tax or selling parts below retail then I think you are not being honest with yourself. You have driven yourself out of business. The Buick community is a tight group, as you know. Word of mouth will make or break you. There should not be any problem with other Gurus that work out of their garage or don’t build their own shortblocks.

You'd take your car to a guy who fixed the cars in his garage? with no insurance, and no outlet for name brand parts? I bet you go the the boneyard for your parts too..

You had a beautiful shop to take out the Gurus. But you elected to let other people work on your customer cars. QC sucked. And the bullshit. You were full of so much bullshit I had to go to your shop with hip boots on. It pisses me off when I am listening to Bullshit as it insulting.

Speaking of bullshit......

By the way, the ultimate problem with my TR was a bogus valve job. All the used and new parts you threw at this car could not fix this mechanical problem. But I guess a compression test was too much to ask. TaTaDave

Again, did you give Dave a chance to make things right?

Oh, and by the way...nice pussy way to hide your identity. makes people see how credible your comments are.

Have a nice day.

BTW: Mike..nice job moderating..


------------------
Jim Testa
1986 Regal T-Type
Stock block, Turbomotion ported heads, PTE 210 roller cam, GNT ported intake, PTE Plenum, 70mm TB, PTE FM IC, MSD 50's, TE61, TPS-TEC, JT Chip, JT 200R4, Vigilante 2800 LU convertor, JT Boxed lower arms, working on girlde....

[This message has been edited by TurboJim (edited December 06, 2000).]

[Orlando_87GN]

BTW: Mike..nice job moderating..

What? Am I supposed to close a thread when someone complains about something? Sorry, you have your boards confused. I don't sit around with the mouse pointer hovering over "Close Thread" like I have seen elsewhere.

If this guy has a problem, he has every right to air it out, just as we have every right to complain about other vendors (as we all sometimes do.)

As long as this guy is for real and seems half way professional, he's aloud to post, as are you..

No one ever said that you would never read something objectional or distasteful on these BB's....

If you don't like it, move to the next thread and let's keep it professional .

Thanks guys..

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Email Address: mailto:mike@TurboBuicks.commike@TurboBuicks.com</A>


Current Combo: Stock Turbo, V4, MSD50's, TH DP, JayJackson 62mm TB, 16position MaxEffort Chip.
12.35 & 108.39 Street Trim.

[This message has been edited by Orlando_87GN (edited December 06, 2000).]

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by Orlando_87GN:
As long as this guy is for real and seems half way professional, he's aloud to post, as are you..

There's the key. I suppose somene that signs on to a BB with NO profile info, and an email addy that reads "upyourass@aol.com" is supposed to be taken seriously? And this same type of person is "half way professional"????????

There was absolutely nothing professional about that post, and nothing that could be construed as credable.
This type of person is nothing but a totally non-credable "flame bater" that can't even muster the courage to ID himself.

Mike, do you know this person? If so why allow such an unprofessional, overly provocative attack?



------------------
TurboDave & Kathy Huinker, mailto:TurboDave@turbobuicks.comTurboDave@turbobuicks.com</A>
TurboD Racing,BGNRA San Diego,GSCA-5311,Turbo Buick Web Ring
San Diego CA http://home.san.rr.com/buickv6/
86 GN 11.50; 118.50 "corrected"(actually 11.80@115.3 at 2,900 feet).
(MM/MAF Xlator/Extender,MM BstC Boost Command,THDP,PTE44,CAS V2FM,MSD50's,9.5"vigilante 3500)
87 GN 12.95@105.50(Stock)
84 L69 Z28

[Orlando_87GN]

Fine, we'll force him to make a profile and use a real email address... Otherwise he can't post anymore.

Now if he signed on with no profile & fake email address, and praised GNT.. would we be having this conversation??

Sometimes being a Moderator means overlooking some of this stuff and moving on.. not closing every questionable thread..

Hope you guys understand..

------------------
Email Address: mailto:mike@TurboBuicks.commike@TurboBuicks.com</A>


Current Combo: Stock Turbo, V4, MSD50's, TH DP, JayJackson 62mm TB, 16position MaxEffort Chip.
12.35 & 108.39 Street Trim.