Who's running Mike's 4.1 budget build up?

YI_work · 05-17-2006, 12:36 AM

I was just wondering who copied Mike's 4.1 build up. I'm in the process but won't be done till next spring at the earliest. Anyone else doing the build up? I know Mike did his back in 04 but I havn't seen an update on on how fast it is now or the current set-up. I went today to check on piston prices and they thought I was crazy for thinking of using this piston to try and go 10's

Scottie-GNZ · 05-17-2006, 07:53 AM

I did a "budget +", with the "+" being that that I added ARP rod bolts and head studs, a girdle and reused my Champion Irons from my 109. My target HP is about 575 at the wheels and the best so far is a 10.57 @ 131.5 which factors out to about 516 (3000# w/driver) with 25# and lots of issues. Converter was too loose so the RPMs was up there preventing more boost. Also had some major exhaust leaks and boost creep. I believe the HP goal is achievable without stressing the engine too much.

Combo is +.040 hypers, 214-224 cam, 75s, Razor's PAC, TEC2, 3.07s and just switched to a TH400.

I guess you need about 560rwhp to get a 10.90 in a 3700# TR.

YI_work · 05-17-2006, 10:13 AM

Yeah I planned on doing the APR rod and head bolts and APR studded bottom with billet 2 billet mains and a girdle. I want a solid bottom end so that why I was thinking about not using the hypers. I'm just looking for some reassurance with going with them

87GTA-turbo · 05-17-2006, 10:29 AM

I started a budget 4.1 , then I bought a steel crank, SFI flexplate & dampner, I ordered K1 rods now I am conetmplating a girdle. and I am having second thoughts about getting forged pistons now that I am in this deep. But I thinking about putting together a striclty budget one now because i have two 4.1 blocks and two cars to put them into so the high $$ one will wait.
But if you are thinking of buying forged pistons maybe if we put in multiple orders together the price will come down.

YI_work · 05-17-2006, 10:40 AM

Hmmm group buy! Not a bad idea. I'd like to go .010 to .020 over tops if I do custom. Who makes forged pistons? The place I went to couldn't find any through there suppliers. Forged are also heavy

I'm keeping mine stock crank and rod. My goal is high 10's with no more then 25# with my current turbo and intercooler. I'm still thinking about putting this set up in My Dodge Aspen and making it a more serious race car. Figured I could sell the motor and trans out of it to build the 4.1 and then step it up like you are doing. But I don't think I have time for 2 cars and don't want to cut up the GN with a roll bar

87bigcut · 05-17-2006, 11:08 AM

You could call up companies like CP or venolia or a ton of other cutom piston makers, but I hear CP is superior. I think the consensus is that you dont need the billet caps with the girdle, unless of course your caps are unusable. A lot of guys are going faster than high tens with a girdle and stock caps I believe, althoutgh that is with a 109 block.

By stock rods you do mean the turbo 2 dot right? Are the 4.1 rods the same?

Joe

YI_work · 05-17-2006, 11:13 AM

From what I read the rods are the same. I have yet to take the motor a part. Hope to start doing some small things to it next month.

Walker231T · 05-17-2006, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YI_work

Hmmm group buy! Not a bad idea. I'd like to go .010 to .020 over tops if I do custom. Who makes forged pistons? The place I went to couldn't find any through there suppliers. Forged are also heavy

I'm keeping mine stock crank and rod. My goal is high 10's with no more then 25# with my current turbo and intercooler. I'm still thinking about putting this set up in My Dodge Aspen and making it a more serious race car. Figured I could sell the motor and trans out of it to build the 4.1 and then step it up like you are doing. But I don't think I have time for 2 cars and don't want to cut up the GN with a roll bar

You might want to contact Red "REDS HOT AIR" on this board of Eastern Virginia Turbo Buicks. He is doing a group buy of forged pistons and the more he gets the cheaper the price!!

YI_work · 05-17-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walker231T

You might want to contact Red "REDS HOT AIR" on this board of Eastern Virginia Turbo Buicks. He is doing a group buy of forged pistons and the more he gets the cheaper the price!!

Thanks!

Scottie-GNZ · 05-17-2006, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 87bigcut

By stock rods you do mean the turbo 2 dot right? Are the 4.1 rods the same?

Joe

I am using a stock turbo crank with the 4.1L rods.

87bigcut · 05-17-2006, 06:05 PM

thats awesome on the rods, wasnt sure if they were on par with the two-dots or not.

Joe

YI_work · 05-18-2006, 09:58 AM

I sent Reds Hot Air a PM about the forged pistons and asked him to stop in this thread and post up details about the group buy. He may be at the Nat's so keep checking back

YI_work · 05-23-2006, 11:18 PM

So anyone going 10's(in a GN) with the hypers. Hard to compare Scottie's #3000/wdriver car to our #3850 w/driver cars

Orlando_87GN · 05-24-2006, 10:40 AM

There was a gentleman on this board that made it into the 9's on the 4.1 hypers, in a GN.

YI_work · 05-24-2006, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orlando_87GN

There was a gentleman on this board that made it into the 9's on the 4.1 hypers, in a GN.

Sweet! Hope he can chime in. Like to know how much boost it took and what his combo is

05-17-2006, 12:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
YI_work Going back to stock Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,663	Who's running Mike's 4.1 budget build up? I was just wondering who copied Mike's 4.1 build up. I'm in the process but won't be done till next spring at the earliest. Anyone else doing the build up? I know Mike did his back in 04 but I havn't seen an update on on how fast it is now or the current set-up. I went today to check on piston prices and they thought I was crazy for thinking of using this piston to try and go 10's __________________ Mike 86 t-top GN w/45k miles Old combo: PT-54, MSD 50#, Big Mouth cold air, Walbro 340M, Hotwire, V4 intercooler, ATR 3" downpipe, ATR 2.5 dual exhaust, UMI lower and adjustable uppers and Art Carr 9.5 L/U converter 11.96@113 w/1.694 5/20/06 AHSA.cc 1978 Dodge aspen w/440 11.16@124 on motor 10.43@129 on 100 shot

05-17-2006, 07:53 AM	#2 (permalink)
Scottie-GNZ Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Orlando, FL, USA Posts: 1,568	I did a "budget +", with the "+" being that that I added ARP rod bolts and head studs, a girdle and reused my Champion Irons from my 109. My target HP is about 575 at the wheels and the best so far is a 10.57 @ 131.5 which factors out to about 516 (3000# w/driver) with 25# and lots of issues. Converter was too loose so the RPMs was up there preventing more boost. Also had some major exhaust leaks and boost creep. I believe the HP goal is achievable without stressing the engine too much. Combo is +.040 hypers, 214-224 cam, 75s, Razor's PAC, TEC2, 3.07s and just switched to a TH400. I guess you need about 560rwhp to get a 10.90 in a 3700# TR. __________________

05-17-2006, 10:13 AM	#3 (permalink)
YI_work Going back to stock Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,663	Yeah I planned on doing the APR rod and head bolts and APR studded bottom with billet 2 billet mains and a girdle. I want a solid bottom end so that why I was thinking about not using the hypers. I'm just looking for some reassurance with going with them __________________ Mike 86 t-top GN w/45k miles Old combo: PT-54, MSD 50#, Big Mouth cold air, Walbro 340M, Hotwire, V4 intercooler, ATR 3" downpipe, ATR 2.5 dual exhaust, UMI lower and adjustable uppers and Art Carr 9.5 L/U converter 11.96@113 w/1.694 5/20/06 AHSA.cc 1978 Dodge aspen w/440 11.16@124 on motor 10.43@129 on 100 shot

05-17-2006, 10:29 AM	#4 (permalink)
87GTA-turbo Stupidest man alive. Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Beaufort, SC Posts: 2,383	I started a budget 4.1 , then I bought a steel crank, SFI flexplate & dampner, I ordered K1 rods now I am conetmplating a girdle. and I am having second thoughts about getting forged pistons now that I am in this deep. But I thinking about putting together a striclty budget one now because i have two 4.1 blocks and two cars to put them into so the high $$ one will wait. But if you are thinking of buying forged pistons maybe if we put in multiple orders together the price will come down. __________________ Steve- “It only gets worse...." 1987 GN, Moonroof, GNX dash, 109 .030 TRW Forged TE-62, G Body DP, 204/214cam, 60-65 Siemens inj, Extender chip, LS1 MAF, port matched intake and heads, Razor's meth. inj. CK Trans, Pats 2800 conv, Metco LCA's Monitored by:PLX WB, EGT, SM & DS 11.8 @ 117 w/ the 4.1 (RIP) 7/08 1987 Gray Regal T LS1 MAF, 32lb inj, Chip, mostly stock 2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0 I6 4x4

05-17-2006, 10:40 AM	#5 (permalink)
YI_work Going back to stock Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,663	Hmmm group buy! Not a bad idea. I'd like to go .010 to .020 over tops if I do custom. Who makes forged pistons? The place I went to couldn't find any through there suppliers. Forged are also heavy I'm keeping mine stock crank and rod. My goal is high 10's with no more then 25# with my current turbo and intercooler. I'm still thinking about putting this set up in My Dodge Aspen and making it a more serious race car. Figured I could sell the motor and trans out of it to build the 4.1 and then step it up like you are doing. But I don't think I have time for 2 cars and don't want to cut up the GN with a roll bar __________________ Mike 86 t-top GN w/45k miles Old combo: PT-54, MSD 50#, Big Mouth cold air, Walbro 340M, Hotwire, V4 intercooler, ATR 3" downpipe, ATR 2.5 dual exhaust, UMI lower and adjustable uppers and Art Carr 9.5 L/U converter 11.96@113 w/1.694 5/20/06 AHSA.cc 1978 Dodge aspen w/440 11.16@124 on motor 10.43@129 on 100 shot

05-17-2006, 11:08 AM	#6 (permalink)
87bigcut Free Door Removal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Port Crane, NY Posts: 1,555	You could call up companies like CP or venolia or a ton of other cutom piston makers, but I hear CP is superior. I think the consensus is that you dont need the billet caps with the girdle, unless of course your caps are unusable. A lot of guys are going faster than high tens with a girdle and stock caps I believe, althoutgh that is with a 109 block. By stock rods you do mean the turbo 2 dot right? Are the 4.1 rods the same? Joe __________________ 87 Cutlass powered by Mods: THDP, Single 4", Erson 214/214, TE44, 60# mototrons, SMC Alky, Innovate LC1, Ported heads and intake by VPE, Wiseco Pistons, RJC Girdle, Ported TB, Powerstroke IC, HRParts Swaybar, Hoosier 28x10.5 with rolled quarters (no notch), no front swaybar, stock MAF, comp 90/10's, powerlogger and some other small stuff. 60' 1.6501 330' 4.7762 1/8 7.4230 @ 93.17 mph Has more in it but the transmission disagreed .

05-17-2006, 11:13 AM	#7 (permalink)
YI_work Going back to stock Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,663	From what I read the rods are the same. I have yet to take the motor a part. Hope to start doing some small things to it next month. __________________ Mike 86 t-top GN w/45k miles Old combo: PT-54, MSD 50#, Big Mouth cold air, Walbro 340M, Hotwire, V4 intercooler, ATR 3" downpipe, ATR 2.5 dual exhaust, UMI lower and adjustable uppers and Art Carr 9.5 L/U converter 11.96@113 w/1.694 5/20/06 AHSA.cc 1978 Dodge aspen w/440 11.16@124 on motor 10.43@129 on 100 shot

05-17-2006, 06:05 PM	#11 (permalink)
87bigcut Free Door Removal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Port Crane, NY Posts: 1,555	thats awesome on the rods, wasnt sure if they were on par with the two-dots or not. Joe __________________ 87 Cutlass powered by Mods: THDP, Single 4", Erson 214/214, TE44, 60# mototrons, SMC Alky, Innovate LC1, Ported heads and intake by VPE, Wiseco Pistons, RJC Girdle, Ported TB, Powerstroke IC, HRParts Swaybar, Hoosier 28x10.5 with rolled quarters (no notch), no front swaybar, stock MAF, comp 90/10's, powerlogger and some other small stuff. 60' 1.6501 330' 4.7762 1/8 7.4230 @ 93.17 mph Has more in it but the transmission disagreed .

05-18-2006, 09:58 AM	#12 (permalink)
YI_work Going back to stock Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,663	I sent Reds Hot Air a PM about the forged pistons and asked him to stop in this thread and post up details about the group buy. He may be at the Nat's so keep checking back __________________ Mike 86 t-top GN w/45k miles Old combo: PT-54, MSD 50#, Big Mouth cold air, Walbro 340M, Hotwire, V4 intercooler, ATR 3" downpipe, ATR 2.5 dual exhaust, UMI lower and adjustable uppers and Art Carr 9.5 L/U converter 11.96@113 w/1.694 5/20/06 AHSA.cc 1978 Dodge aspen w/440 11.16@124 on motor 10.43@129 on 100 shot

05-23-2006, 11:18 PM	#13 (permalink)
YI_work Going back to stock Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,663	So anyone going 10's(in a GN) with the hypers. Hard to compare Scottie's #3000/wdriver car to our #3850 w/driver cars __________________ Mike 86 t-top GN w/45k miles Old combo: PT-54, MSD 50#, Big Mouth cold air, Walbro 340M, Hotwire, V4 intercooler, ATR 3" downpipe, ATR 2.5 dual exhaust, UMI lower and adjustable uppers and Art Carr 9.5 L/U converter 11.96@113 w/1.694 5/20/06 AHSA.cc 1978 Dodge aspen w/440 11.16@124 on motor 10.43@129 on 100 shot

05-24-2006, 10:40 AM	#14 (permalink)
Orlando_87GN Resident Idiot Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Orlando, FL USA Posts: 10,359	There was a gentleman on this board that made it into the 9's on the 4.1 hypers, in a GN. __________________ Check Out MikesStuff4Sale.com to view my used parts! ------------------------------------------------ 1987 Buick Grand National Budget 4.1, 204/214 cam, TA-49 Turbo, Stockish Heads, V4, MSD50's, TH DP, JayJackson 62mm TB, Translator plus Extender powered. 3680# with pilot ------------------------------------------------ 1993 Mazda RX-7 4.1 Buick Powered 11.20 @ 128mph (2.4 60')!

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