Turbo Tweak chip fixes problem that Reds (Quad Air) chip was causing

[turbo nasty]

A friend has a 86 GN (30lbers grn str, 237 reg, TA49, 3"DP and exh, K&N) that has had a cold start stall, hesitation, tip in stumble, rich at idle for a while. He is an older guy that doesn't want to be adjusting it all the time and puts maybe a few hundred miles a year on it. Couple years ago when I met him I went through and got the engine up to par (spring cleaning and everything adjusted) but still had the open loop (cold start) problem and closed loop rich.
Knowing that everything was on the money sensor and mechanic wise the only other thing had to be the chip. So I call Quad Air up and rap with them double checking the chip # to make sure it was burned for the 30lb inj and 237 reg. They said the stock inj and the Tomco 30 grn stripes take the same chip.... . I tell them that it will make the car pig rich due to higher psi at the rail with the 237 and the inj being slightly bigger the chip should be tailored to the application specifics. Their answer no...no something else must be wrong, did u try this and that. Also stated they have never had a problem and he should get a adjustable regulator and drop fuel psi to compensate for the richness.
After the conversation w/ them I knew the chip was the culprit and there had to be someone that could work with what he had in place. That is when I called up Eric Marshall/Turbo Tweak and explained our woes and he had a chip to us in no time.
Removed the gnd on the battery and pulled the ECM and R&R the chips and reconnected the neg and started it up. The car had been sitting for a week without a start and she fired off first hit and ran as smooth as silk never died or hesitated in open loop while puttin it in gear we never adjusted anything just slapped it in there. The car has so much more power throughout the whole power band, immediate response, spools much faster, idle is so much smoother, starts faster, more powerful exh note at idle.
Took it for a test drive and now vs before with the car in 2nd gear (far enough in where it will not downshift to 1st) and you stomp it you can just feel the car trying to break the tires loose. My bud was flippin out, completely different car .
Red may make a good race chip but his street chip sucks, at least the one for the stock/30 grn stripe one does. I wonder how many others are suffer from poor tune do to this and the extra ring/cyl wear from fuel wash down due to the pig rich crap. Big props to Eric and Turbo Tweak chips thanx for your awesome support.

[Trbojo]

i have Red's street chip (93) for stock injectors. Its idle is ok but performance is nothing to write home about (slow-spool) and rich at idle as well.

[TTA89]

Mail order stuff is hit or miss but I never had any luck with Reds Chips either. They always spooled slow and were way rich on my car.

Then again I loved the Kenne Bell Hotflash Racechip which most people think sucks... Went 114mph on a Stock Turbo/Injectors with it.

Glad you guys got it sorted out, sounds like Eric is the new Chip Guru in town

[Ormand]

I have 30 lb injectors, with a Thrasher, which was burned for the stock injectors. I use it with the recommended fuel pressure of 45psi, line off. It is NOT rich. If it was a little rich, then the BLMs would compensate. There is a lot of room for error, and the O2 sensor will provide the info that the ECM needs to make corrections. Now, if/when it runs open loop, then the O2 sensor is out of the equation. I think Thrasher runs an open loop idle, to get it smooth. But off idle, and at other vacuum or low boost situations, it is in closed loop, and it does manage not to be rich.
BUT... I spent the $60 to get an adjustable FPR from Mark Martone. So, if the scanmaster, or Turbolink, tells me I need to adjust fuel pressure, than I can. As I understand the post, Eric provided a good chip, which seemingly solved some problems, which you choose to blame on Red. When the Quad Air folks suggested an adjustable FPR, you chose to ignore their advice. Suppose Eric, at Turbotweak, suggests the same thing? Suppose this guy makes a change in exhaust or inlet configuration, which affects mixture? Back to Turbotweak to get another chip?

[pacecarta]

ive never used a reds , i use TT chips ,
and im not saying you didnt or wouldnt notice a difference ,but before you bash the reds do some studying on how much differently the two chips work
as your thinking of him being incorrect about the injectors is wrong

QOUTE
stock inj and the Tomco 30 grn stripes take the same chip.... . I tell them that it will make the car pig rich due to higher psi at the rail with the 237 and the inj being slightly bigger the chip should be tailored to the application specifics. Their answer no...no something else must be wrong, did u try this and that.

he is right

the stock or 30 lb greenstripe (tomco), same thing
and the 233 to 237 , the 3lb fp diff isnt very much in how much the injector flow would increase, definately would not cause problems

you're comparing the ride characteristics of a chip that runs closed loop idle for emmisions and one that runs open loop , TTchip should be run at 43lbs static and and as you stated works great even though your a few lbs lower than what he programs for.
the reds being closed loop chip like the stocker will adjust to the slight changes in FP and the slight diff in rating of in the injectors and react quickly to O2 readings and stored info in BLM cells and will correct itself accordingly if all info it gets from the sensors is correct .get incorrect info or bad settings for your car and troubles will come.

you say everything is on the money , odds are they arent but erics chip because it works differently makes all seem as if it fine (and it does)

his chip is an open loop idle , it ignores O2 readings at idle which on yours may be inaccurate and eric has a few other things to make the driving experience on the street more pleasureable
if everything on your car was fine than the chip shouldnt have mattered .
but eric does make a nice chip i was extremely happy with my 30lb street chip running tomcos on a near stock car with just the basics done , money well spent

[Steve Wood]

It seems that Red consistently makes "fat" chips if one believes all the posts over the years on the subject. Blms are often way low....I just figured he did them that way to ensure plenty of fuel when the boost was up.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Steve Wood

It seems that Red consistently makes "fat" chips if one believes all the posts over the years on the subject. Blms are often way low....I just figured he did them that way to ensure plenty of fuel when the boost was up.

That's the problem: A lack of innovation. At least TurboTweak, ME, & Extender type products have take it to the next level.

I (and a few of my friends) can speak from experience when I say the night and day difference found in going from a Jay Carter chip one summer, to a TurboTweak chip the next.

And this isn't an attempt to slag anybody, it is just what I have discovered in my experiences.

[Fakeyankee]

I just installed Eric's chip last week. Before that my car was running like crap; surging, BLM's locked at 150, couldn't get my IAC down past 60, sluggish response and tip in. I don't know what my last chip was but after installing Eric's chip......WOW !!! Totally different car. Idles perfect, IAC at 20, no surging or tip in. Street manners are incredible !! Got to be some kind of magic in the TurboTweak setup. Eric's the Man in my book !!

[turbo nasty]

Lets see for research, I called Caspers(John), Lou Cz, ATR, etc all across the nation. ALL stated that the 30 lbs require a different map than the stockers fuel psi aside. And Quad air was set on the fact the chip did not need a different program for the 30's. After all the others saying the chip needs a different program and common since disk vs pintle alone having different flow/spray characteristics, I knew the chip was it. MY bud was flat out sick of it stalling, hiccuping, hesitating when cold.
He has no plans of building(changin exh and inlet) up his GN any further, he is an older fellow that nevers takes it to the track and very doubtful he ever will and he has put right at 7k on it in over 12 years so the car is a fair weather flyer only.
He is happy no matter what I said about "Red" and his chip, the TT chip works great and the parameters are safe.
Red has been in the Buick community for a long time and has built up some fast cars and there is no doubt people know who he is, I will give him that.

[TurboJim]

I've been telling you people WHY the cars do this for years!

Ahh well, back under my rock.

[86BGNT]

Originally Posted by TurboJim

I've been telling you people WHY the cars do this for years!

Ahh well, back under my rock.

Come back out from under the rock! I am new to TR's and everything with this car is starting to seem funky.

[REDS HOT AIR]

Eric at Turbotweak is the chip Guru

now with Erics chip If you change something and need more fuel you can add more fuel to the chip yourself or add/ remove timing