New engine - Page 2

Steve Wood · 10-27-2003, 11:39 AM

A search on the subject will bring up a jillion items on the subject-the majority by individuals who are saying that syn is too slick to allow the rings to seat.

Then there are some that claim that GM, et al, do a good job of machining and syn works okay, but, your machine shop might not be as good as GM and therefore you should be using dino oil to be safe for anywhere from 250-1000 miles so the teeth left on the cylinder wall will be rolled over properly.

My feeling is that you should be using a machine shop that does a better job than GM does, but, we have all heard machine shop horror stories. I don't think there is much published factual data that goes one way or the other.

Economically, RK is right. If you do as I do, and change the oil after cam break in (flat tappet) and again, a few hundred miles later in order to cut the filter open and look for unwelcome shiny bits of metal, then using synthetic oil initially gets expensive. Might as well use something cheaper rather than spending $50 in the first few hundred miles.

As Porsche dynos their engines before installation, I wonder what oil they used for the dyno runs?

I have always liked Valvoline 20-50 Racing oil-in fact that is what I put in my GN the last go round because they did not have Mobil One in stock in 15-50 at the time. I have switched back and forth numerous times and cannot tell the difference other than I might have about 1# more oil pressure after several hard runs with the Valvoline.

<small>[ October 27, 2003, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Steve Wood ]</small>

ULYCYC · 10-27-2003, 12:11 PM

I'm not sure which is better, an old machinist with 30 year old equipment that knows how to use it. Or a new shop with new equipment and the workers are still reading the instruction books for the machines. dunno Like Steve said It's cheaper to break in on dino then switch to synthetic if you perfer too.

The Radius Kid · 10-27-2003, 12:13 PM

Hmm,maybe I can shed some light here.
Seems the Syn manufacturers didn't used to use a lot of E/P additive on their engine oils.
They assumed that their oil was the be all,end all.
Wrong.
Most commercial syn's that I've seen are highly refined crude base stock.
Not true syn's.
They just get the syn' rating because they are so refined.
No our engines[not Porsche or Corvette] are not the stiffest blocks G/M ever produced,so unless your block is bored and honed with torque plates,I would allow a little extra leeway[breakin time].
The issue of the E/P additives was not really addressed until recently by the Syn' manufacturers.
We tested a bunch of different oils a few years back for our I/M training and guess what?
The Syn' did the worst on the test out of all the oils.
The conventional dynos lasted 1:20-1:35 before breakdown.
The syn we tested [Pennzoil,if memory serves] got to :15 seconds.
Huh!?
What happened to the syn's superiority?
A buddy of mine who was at the course a few weeks earlier said he spit on the wheel and it did better than the syn'!
Hmm.
IMO,the best thing you can do for engine break in and longevity is to run a good dino for the first couple thousand miles or so and get the "biggie" oil filter adaptor.
That's the way to fly.
JMHO.

The Radius Kid · 10-27-2003, 12:18 PM

Quote:

ULYCYC:
I'm not sure which is better, an old machinist with 30 year old equipment that knows how to use it. Or a new shop with new equipment and the workers are still reading the instruction books for the machines. dunno Like Steve said It's cheaper to break in on dino then switch to synthetic if you perfer too.

I would take the old machinist over the pups any day.
I wouldn't want them using my block as a test bed for their new equipment.
Come to think of it..I AM a machinist!
Damn,who'd of thunk it?
dunno

ULYCYC · 10-27-2003, 02:07 PM

Yep.. Thats my point wink

ILBCNU6 · 10-28-2003, 12:57 AM

All TR Buicks came new from Buick with "Kendall" GT-1 in their engines! Why? Kendall is the only pure petroleum base stock oil left on the market today. Valvoline and most all the others are parafin base stock today. Most all the new blends of oils have the sulfur content mostly or all removed because of the EPA wackos! This isn't good for cam lube or upper engine lube. Ring seating doesn't happen during the first oil change if the very hard rings are used, especially moly rings. All the other cars that came with synthetics in the engines are broken in before ever installing the engines in the car, then it is OK. I only use Kendall in both my TRs and 10W30 wt. My engine rebuilder told me not to ever run synthetics in his engine! Why? Ring seating. Your choice. Gene

10-27-2003, 11:39 AM	#16 (permalink)
Steve Wood An American American Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: East of Eden, Texas Posts: 36,866	A search on the subject will bring up a jillion items on the subject-the majority by individuals who are saying that syn is too slick to allow the rings to seat. Then there are some that claim that GM, et al, do a good job of machining and syn works okay, but, your machine shop might not be as good as GM and therefore you should be using dino oil to be safe for anywhere from 250-1000 miles so the teeth left on the cylinder wall will be rolled over properly. My feeling is that you should be using a machine shop that does a better job than GM does, but, we have all heard machine shop horror stories. I don't think there is much published factual data that goes one way or the other. Economically, RK is right. If you do as I do, and change the oil after cam break in (flat tappet) and again, a few hundred miles later in order to cut the filter open and look for unwelcome shiny bits of metal, then using synthetic oil initially gets expensive. Might as well use something cheaper rather than spending $50 in the first few hundred miles. As Porsche dynos their engines before installation, I wonder what oil they used for the dyno runs? I have always liked Valvoline 20-50 Racing oil-in fact that is what I put in my GN the last go round because they did not have Mobil One in stock in 15-50 at the time. I have switched back and forth numerous times and cannot tell the difference other than I might have about 1# more oil pressure after several hard runs with the Valvoline. <small>[ October 27, 2003, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Steve Wood ]</small> __________________ ------------------ 'A government that is big enough to give you everything you want, is also big enough to take away everything you have.' - Thomas Jefferson I think one should worry more when people are lining up to get out of a country rather than into it. If they're sneaking in, we must be doing something right. The Chronicles of Zap, from the early 21st century www.vortexbuicks-etc.com

10-27-2003, 12:11 PM	#17 (permalink)
ULYCYC Fuhgeddaboudit Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 16,497	I'm not sure which is better, an old machinist with 30 year old equipment that knows how to use it. Or a new shop with new equipment and the workers are still reading the instruction books for the machines. dunno Like Steve said It's cheaper to break in on dino then switch to synthetic if you perfer too. __________________ ED BAKER 87-T, Maplight equipped rear view mirror.. 93 PARK AVE"SUPERCHARGED" BPG#1458 My Photo Page buickperformancegroup.com "As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."---H.L. Mencken 1927

10-27-2003, 12:13 PM	#18 (permalink)
The Radius Kid Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Stoney Creek,Ontario,Canada Posts: 9,075	Hmm,maybe I can shed some light here. Seems the Syn manufacturers didn't used to use a lot of E/P additive on their engine oils. They assumed that their oil was the be all,end all. Wrong. Most commercial syn's that I've seen are highly refined crude base stock. Not true syn's. They just get the syn' rating because they are so refined. No our engines[not Porsche or Corvette] are not the stiffest blocks G/M ever produced,so unless your block is bored and honed with torque plates,I would allow a little extra leeway[breakin time]. The issue of the E/P additives was not really addressed until recently by the Syn' manufacturers. We tested a bunch of different oils a few years back for our I/M training and guess what? The Syn' did the worst on the test out of all the oils. The conventional dynos lasted 1:20-1:35 before breakdown. The syn we tested [Pennzoil,if memory serves] got to :15 seconds. Huh!? What happened to the syn's superiority? A buddy of mine who was at the course a few weeks earlier said he spit on the wheel and it did better than the syn'! Hmm. IMO,the best thing you can do for engine break in and longevity is to run a good dino for the first couple thousand miles or so and get the "biggie" oil filter adaptor. That's the way to fly. JMHO. __________________ Politics is the art of glad-handing,passionate bllsht and hidden agendas.

10-27-2003, 02:07 PM	#20 (permalink)
ULYCYC Fuhgeddaboudit Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 16,497	Yep.. Thats my point wink __________________ ED BAKER 87-T, Maplight equipped rear view mirror.. 93 PARK AVE"SUPERCHARGED" BPG#1458 My Photo Page buickperformancegroup.com "As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."---H.L. Mencken 1927

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10-28-2003, 12:57 AM	#21 (permalink)
ILBCNU6 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: New Hope, MN. US Posts: 679	All TR Buicks came new from Buick with "Kendall" GT-1 in their engines! Why? Kendall is the only pure petroleum base stock oil left on the market today. Valvoline and most all the others are parafin base stock today. Most all the new blends of oils have the sulfur content mostly or all removed because of the EPA wackos! This isn't good for cam lube or upper engine lube. Ring seating doesn't happen during the first oil change if the very hard rings are used, especially moly rings. All the other cars that came with synthetics in the engines are broken in before ever installing the engines in the car, then it is OK. I only use Kendall in both my TRs and 10W30 wt. My engine rebuilder told me not to ever run synthetics in his engine! Why? Ring seating. Your choice. Gene