LOUSY day at the track!

[Tomas Del Maar]

First off, I'd like to thank Schlodes and The Radius Kid for trying to help trying to figure out my car. Thanks to KWIKR1 for bringing his good MAF and NAS-T-V6 for at least beating my times

Bottom line is...I ran better last year when the car was stock The mods (below) plus new crt43 @.035" plugs, new fuel filter, synthetic 10w-30, blocked coolant lines, TPS at .44 and 94 Sunoco Gold in the tank. Fuel pressure was at 42 then 41 w/vaccum off.

On the first run, the engine over-revved at the end of 2nd so I backed right off (re-adj. the TV cable--SCHLODES)...the next two with the tranny shifting nicely, weren't much better.

#2/#3
Reaction .852 / .317
60ft 2.553 / 2.444
330 ft 6.896 / 7.068
1/8 ET 10.313 / 10.621
1/8 MPH 72.70 / 69.91
1/4 ET 15.63 / 16.089
1/4 MPH 91.12 / 90.34

On my SMII, I got about .825 millivolts with a 1.6 avg knock.

I will note that I didn't launch with any boot, but did powerbrake it...it seemed that the boost was hard to build in first. I was too busy watching the tree...Radius Kid observed black smoke after my launching....then about a 1/4 of the way down the track the car started to pick up throught the boost and speed...so it kinda "bogged" or felt sluggish at the start.

I don't know what to do next....However, I will note that when when I had my chip "customized" my original MAF may have been starting to go south (2 weeks later it died) so is it possible for a chip to be programmed for a crappy MAF and no matter if a new MAF is installed that the chip is still programmed for the GOING MAF? I had KWIKR1's known good MAF in there and although the car's behaviour and AF counts improved, the car still let me down.

What now?

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1987 GN: 104,500 miles, 160°T-stat, homemade dual exhaust, Adj.WG, Walbro 340, Adj.FPR, 8"K&N Cone, engine tie-down, SCANMASTER II, 30psi VDO Boost gauge, 235/60/15 DUNLOP GT QUALIFIERS all around, custom chip. Set at a confident 15lbs of boost 14.4 ET @ 91.7mph STILL MY BEST WTF?...BEFORE the above mods were done!



[This message has been edited by Tomas Del Maar (edited July 22, 2001).]

[Nivek]

How are the injectors? holding pressure?

How is the compression of the engine? And leak down test???

O2 counts?

40lbs is pretty rich of fuel for only 15psi of boost... IMO...

[Nivek]

BTW each .1 in a 60ft is worth .2 overall, basically I would expect you to cut 1.9 60fts and your cutting 2.5s so your losing 1.2seconds off your time due to crappy launching.

dont worry about the tree and cutting a good light, it doesnt matter, the track doesnt record your time until you move... so wait till it goes green, and then rev up and go, this way you dont get overzealous and screw up your launches...

[Tomas Del Maar]

Originally posted by Nivek:

How are the injectors? holding pressure?

Still stock injectors...How long should they hold pressure for after the car is shut off? I have a permanent fuel gauge on the rail by the way.

How is the compression of the engine? And leak down test???

That I don't know. It doesn't use, burn or leak oil. Like I said it had power as I got past that 1/8 ET point...its everything before that...

O2 counts?

.828 @ 1.6 KR (avg) on all 3 runs...


40lbs is pretty rich of fuel for only 15psi of boost... IMO...

When my stock chip was being "customized" it was supposed to be set for 42 psi and at 15lbs boost I get no knock...well at the time of tuning the chip...




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1987 GN: 104,500 miles, 160°T-stat, homemade dual exhaust, Adj.WG, Walbro 340, Adj.FPR, 8"K&N Cone, engine tie-down, SCANMASTER II, 30psi VDO Boost gauge, 235/60/15 DUNLOP GT QUALIFIERS all around, custom chip. Set at a confident 15lbs of boost 14.4 ET @ 91.7mph is STILL MY BEST... WTF?
...BEFORE the above mods were done!

[Tomas Del Maar]

Originally posted by Nivek:
BTW each .1 in a 60ft is worth .2 overall, basically I would expect you to cut 1.9 60fts and your cutting 2.5s so your losing 1.2seconds off your time due to crappy launching.

dont worry about the tree and cutting a good light, it doesnt matter, the track doesnt record your time until you move... so wait till it goes green, and then rev up and go, this way you dont get overzealous and screw up your launches...

Yeah, that is true...I was more worried about the freaking light too much. I was trying to watch the boost gauge and the SMII at the same time. It did feel like there was no boost coming up as I was powerbraking it...it was like I had to floor it to even get the boost going. After the launch the boost seemed to climb alright (from what I remember seeing...)

Thanks Nivek



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1987 GN: 104,500 miles, 160°T-stat, homemade dual exhaust, Adj.WG, Walbro 340, Adj.FPR, 8"K&N Cone, engine tie-down, SCANMASTER II, 30psi VDO Boost gauge, 235/60/15 DUNLOP GT QUALIFIERS all around, custom chip. Set at a confident 15lbs of boost 14.4 ET @ 91.7mph is STILL MY BEST... WTF?
...BEFORE the above mods were done!

[Nas-T-V6]

Try bringing that FP down to 38 psi static Tomas, I think you will notice an improvement.

Jonathan

[ES]

No expert but...
Why did you leave at no boost?
What boost did you leave at when you ran your previous best?
You have same MPH with best run vs poor run.
I am thinking if you left at 5-8# boost you whould had a better time and a better 60 foot.

[Spoolin Around]

Tomas, hey bud at least you made it to the track to race, sorry I missed you and the boys. My car is finally fixed dude and I am ready to rumble again. Sorry to here about your troubles, hang in there it will get better.

[Steve Wood]

I would suspect that one tenth on the short time is more likely a tenth and a half on the other end in this speed range but that still gives you a second anyway.

You need something to log your runs with. When everyone tells you that a Scanmaster is the right tool, I would tell you that it's nice for monitoring retard and setting the IAC/tps and that's about it.

I wonder if it is running very rich at launch and bogging you down?

Where you spinning the tires on the launch?



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Steve Wood

Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.


86 GN bought new, 87 T-type-81 El Camino with GN drive train-basically stock 86, 94 Caprice 9C1, 69 SS396 Camaro Convertible

[shmed]

Hi Thomas
You didnt mention that it wa swell into the 90's and the humidity was also real high. this too equates into poor racing conditions.
Now whats this custom chip you talk of?
I've always used reds chips with great sucess.
And as mentioned above about your sixty foot times if ya want better times you hafta run some sort of sticky tire.
That way you can leave with PSI.
and thats my o2...

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1987 GN
pte 53
009's
t-brake
7-disc 9.5 vigilante

[Schlodes]

Hey Tomas,

I think one of the first things in order is to get a nice new high flow cat or a test pipe on there.. With 170000 KM its very possible that you have a massive restriction going on there with a clogged up cat (I remember you saying its the stocker right?). This will lead to slow spool up, lack of boost, and so on..

So long as you have a full tank of Sunoco 94 in there, you should have no problems running a safe 16-17 PSI with a good 93 octane street chip. Usually the way I do it, is start off my first pass with the fuel pressure a tad rich.. in your case would have started round 45 PSI with the line off.. Then go for a pass, see what your boost is at.. and watch 02s.. If boost os lower than 16-17 PSI then come back.. let it cool, and turn it up some.. go back out and make another pass.. once you get your boost at the desired level (for your gievn octane - Sunoco 94 in your case) THEN start trimming your fuel pressure down a tad each run until you see your 02 start to level off around 780 - 800 mv.. keeping an eye on knock retard as well which shouldnt be more than a few degrees up top of a run. Also the 60 foots could use soem work too.. Your car with a 1.9x-2.0 60 foot and a tuned in 16-17 PSI boost should have no problem cranking off 13.40-50s.. if not a tad faster

The above method is always how I have tuned my car (going from a 16 PSI street tune.. to a 22 PSI race tune when I get to the track..) and have had good luck with it.

I didn't really see anything else with your car that should have been holding you back really except for perhaps your cat like we discussed...

You'll get her tuned in - dont sell it!!

P.S. - about your TV cable.. I disagree with your friend Pete that I had "set it too tight". That exact procedure is listed on the GNTTYPE site as well as in the service manuals.. Your transmission felt ok to me



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Steve Ruston
1987 Turbo Limited

[TTA89]

825 02s and 15psi? No wonder it ran like ****.

If your only going to run 15psi then get a high timing chip. Basically your running stock boost levels (14psi?) and you changed from the factory chip which has a TON of timing in it to an aftermarket chip that probably has 18 or 20 degrees yet you didnt change the boost level.

Is that a good explanation of why you went slower?

Now if would have ran like 17-18psi you would have at least been in the low 13s.

Your MPH SUCKS so you know your not making power. GNs run what? 94-95mph stock?

Less Fuel, More Boost = Better Times.

Although then again, GNs suck on Pumpgas. Your best bet is

Racechip
RaceGas
21psi
750 02s
Open Exhaust

Low Low 12s EASY.




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Mike Schoenfeld

[Tomas Del Maar]

Thanks for all the input and thoughts guys!

I'm getting a performance cat put on next friday...probably about due time...and this way I can eliminate the cat as a culprit. The car seems to run fine otherwise (500km trip for me to and from the track)....just sluggish on take off. Last year I left with like 2 lbs of boost (street tires remember).

That chip I have in there is my original chip, but modified by Pete @ High Tech Racing...which why I wondered if a bad MAF can affect chip at the time of programming.

SPOOLIN': You didn't bring my injectors!
maybe at the next meet.

SCHLODES: The tranny is still great...still chirps the tires in second.

STEVE: No spinning, just fat at launch, then clears up as I'm going up in speed. SMII, don't knock it, without it I'd be really lost. The numbers are where they should all be.

TTA89: Before I go that route, I need to make sure the car is running properly on pump gas before I get into "Strip" mode.
If leaky injectors or headers or bad cat are the culprits, all the timing, ocatane and chips in the Turbo world ain't going to make it run faster...just complicate things. Right now, I just have to start from the bottom again.

The headers leaking are a possibility....when I am driving I hear the "phft..fffft....fffft.....fffft....fffft" sound, then when I let off the gas it stops....SOUNDS like an exhaust leak, but can't pinpoint it....NO exhaust smell inside or around the car, however.

I'm going to get my chip BACK to original factory specs and order a 93 Octane chip from a vendor and see if that make a difference. When the car was tuned up by PETE it ran AWESOME for the 2 weeks before the MAF died. In which time I handily smoked a newer Mustang GT....15psi was with NO knock...I was going to, on track day, raise the boost to 17psi, but when I was belting out 16's, something needed to be corrected...can't beat a dead horse to pull the cart, you know?

It makes me laugh to go almost 2 seconds slower with modifications....hot weather shouldn't kill the car THAT much.

That means NAS-T-V6's car(14.0@97mph) is a high twelver on a cool day!

Stay tuned until next week! I appreciate all this help.



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1987 GN: 104,500 miles, 160°T-stat, homemade dual exhaust with Dynomax Super Turbos, Adj.WG, Walbro 340, Adj.FPR, chrome MAF pipe w/12"K&N cone, engine tie-down, SCANMASTER II, 30psi VDO Boost gauge, 235/60/15 DUNLOP GT QUALIFIERS all around, custom chip. Set at a confident 15lbs of boost 14.4 ET @ 91.7mph is STILL MY BEST---- WTF?
...BEFORE the above mods were done!

[shmed]

Hi Thomas..
Do yourself a BIG favour...Get your factory e prom back to GM specs, then but it away somewhere safe..
Now either get a Joe L or a Red A chip for pump gas...And dont let someone monkey with them with there chipster......
Reason being these two guys have been around TR's for a long time and know there stuff...
Thats my o2 once again...

[Nas-T-V6]

Hey Tomas, I just spent $1500 in new exhaust. You should see it run now . I'm hoping to pull off a mid 12 next time at the track. With slicks and race gas of course. I think the humid weather and 215 radials really hurt me on those passes i made. Next time will be different though!

Jonathan