So You Want a 3.8 Turbo Z Car. (Long, I mean really long)

[Scottie-GNZ]

Let me start off with a little bit of info about Z cars for those who are not familiar with the models. This is far from comprehensive so back off if you are a Z know-it-all . We are dealing specifically with the 1st-gen Z cars that were imported from 1970-1978. There are 3 models, 240Z, 260Z and 280Z with the number designating the engine size like 240 is 2.4L, etc. The 240Z was made from 1970-1973 with the 73 having the bumpers extended slightly from the body. 74 was the only year for the 260Z but there was an early and late model. The early was exactly like the 73 240Z and the late was the first model with the battering rams, err, crash bumpers. 75-78 had the 280Z, all with the crash bumpers, heavy bumper shocks and bracing to support the extra weight and expected contact. 240Zs weigh in at about 2,350 to 2,500 depending on the year and equipment. 280Zs got porky with the weight going as high as 2,800. 280Zs have a nicer interior and a stiffer frame but still not stiff enough for a modded LC2, so if you want to go really quick, get a lightweight 240Z and stiffen the chassis. They all have a problem with rust, especially the early Zs so expect it see some.

I assume folks might also have an interest in cost and this really is going to be difficult to give a straight answer because a lot of it depends on your design, fabrication and mechanical skills and your ability and luck to find the right parts and at a reasonable price. People see my car and like the results and want to duplicate it but they have to understand that NOTHING on my car (related to the swap, drivetrain and suspension) was done with a kit. That is not to say it cannot be duplicated, but if you do not have the skill, it is going to cost you a ton of $$$ simply because of what fabricators and machinists charge to do one-offs. It would be an injustice if I led you believe it would cost you $x because that is what it cost me. I like to design and fabricate and cardboard and duct tape are my key "tools". Another thing, a lot of what I did could be considered overkill and was done as an engineering challenge. With that said, here are the basic components and steps needed with cost defined where applicable:

Drivetrain - If you could find a complete engine with turbo, tranny, ECM and harness for $2700-3000, do not even blink. Compared to the typical low-buck SBCs one can find in the JY or from a wreck, that is a high entry fee. However, my bone-stock setup went 12.40s first time out with an easy launch and no idea how to tune this beast. It is going to take a hi-po crate SBC to match that and after you finish dressing the crate engine and getting a tranny you will have spent more than $3K. For mere peanuts (relatively speaking) you can pull 50+hp out of the stock GN engine. This is my 3rd hybrid Z car with the previous 2 having 350 SBCs.

Install Pt I - There are no kits available so you must fabricate your own engine and tranny mounting. There is no way for me to quantify this. If you are a skilled fabricator and understand the concepts of engine swapping regarding driveline angles, basic wiring, etc, it is not a difficult task because the engine is physically small relative to the roomy engine bay. The engine bay could almost swallow 2 LC2s back to back but it is narrow compared to the Buick. Here are a couple of things to watch out for when trying to determine the final position of the engine. You can try to slam the engine back as far as possible but then you will have no room for the DP to turn down at the rear of the engine. Watch out for clearance between the damper/pulley and the steering rack, the header and the steering rod, where the x-over pipe connects to the pass side header and the frame rail. My engine could go back another 4+” but it is positioned so that the steering rack fits between the pulley and the damper and leaves enough room for a 3” DP to turn down at the rear of the engine w/o needing a BFH on the firewall. This required the u-joint in the steering rod to clear the header. Not a big deal if are a half-*** fabricator. My motor mount mounting pad is welded to the x-member. Despite the engine not sitting back as far as it could, it still sits behind the axis of the wheels and has better than 50/50 weight distribution with me in it. BTW, the LC2 and Z engine weighs about the same.

Install Pt II - Once the engine/tranny is installed in the chassis, you need to take measurements and have a custom driveshaft made. I recommend 3" diameter steel with the big Spicer joints and that will cost about $250. You will need a shifter and the easiest route is an aftermarket, keeping in mind that this is a 4-spd tranny (5-spd actually, if you count the LU). Anywhere from $75 used to $250 for a fancy ratchet-type. You will need a VSS and you can get that from Jags That Run for about $60. You will need this as most chips rely on speed data and for TCC LU .You will need a custom alternator bracket or you can use the factory setup but it is bulky and probably will not clear the hood. I made my own. The engine's torque will rip stock motor mounts to shreds so I strongly recommend a polyurethane mount for the drivers side, about $80 and worth every penny.

Cooling - Get the 24x19 Griffin radiator and a good electric fan that moves a lot of air and is shrouded. Do not waste time and money with the generic 16" fans. The Mustang Cobra and V-6 Taurus have a fan that will suck up small children and dogs but it also usage a lot of amperage. Another little jewel is the Ford Escort 1.9 Station Wagon unit. Misred is using that in his LC2 RX7. The radiator is about $190 + mounting + the fan setup. Since the radiator is generic you will have to find hoses that will fit and you will end up with some generic flex hose at the bottom and cutting up 2 hoses to make a top one. Go to your local Discount and see if they will let you in the back with hoses to spend some time finding what you need. If the Z is not a late 280Z, plan on modifying th ehood to add the vents from the late hood to help avoid overheating.

Exhaust - If you are on a budget, scrounge the Buick boards and get a ported stock wastegate elbow for about $50+ and have a shop fabricate a 3" DP to bolt up to that and a 3" exhaust with a free-flowing muffler. If you can fabricate and weld you can save a ton here and make it all yourself. I will not attempt to quantify this either because of the variables such as SS or not, TIG or MIG welds, mandrel vs press-bent, cheap cherry-bomb vs Dynomax Ultraflow.... You get the idea. If you want a better DP, go for the THDP or equivalent but it must be the one for the TTA and you only need the short piece on the turbo.

Intercooling - No Starion, Saab, Volvo, et al here!! Minimum would be the BIG NPR or use a stock GN and make it fit and work as a FMIC. DO NOT GO CHEAP HERE! Mandrel-bent pipes and good clamps is also a must. Remember I said you can get 50hp for a couple of $$$? You will be moving a lot of air and very few OEM I/Cs move enough air to support 300hp and if you say that is all you need then you are starting with the wrong engine. Avoid press-bent I/C pipes, PVC and screw-type clamps especially when you start turning up the boost.

Electrical - With luck you got a complete GN harness and ECM. This harness is independent but can be (Is!) a daunting task if you break out into a cold sweat thinking about doing electrical work. The harness must be opened up as you will end up eliminating almost half of it, especially since you will not have a/c and all the relays that a normal Buick has. A good wiring diagram and patience and you can do it or pay someone or buy the Caspers harness. I ran of new 10-gauge wires from the battery through several relays to support the required power sources for this harness. DO NOT use any of the original Datsun wiring except to trigger relays where necessary. Do not watse time trying to use the stock Z gauges except for the speedo. A 5" Autometer Monster fits in the stock hole perefectly and I repalced all the rest with Autometer Autogage fuel (if you go with a fuel cell), water temp and oil pressure gauges. With a little trickery they will fit in the stock gauge holders and look stock.

Suspension/Brakes - This had better be in your budget right up front. An R200 diff is a must with a minimum of solid u-joints in the halfshafts if you are running street tires. If you step up to DRs or slicks, the 280ZXT CV conversion is a must. The final-drive ratio is going to be difficult part. With just a couple more psi of boost and careful tuning, the car will do 120 in the 1/4-mile. This engine has so much torque that I am not sure what the rear would do if it is not a LSD, but typically even open diffs in an IRS will spin both tires most of the time. Problem is that the R200 LSDs are 3.70 and the engine is a low-revver, forcing you to shift to OD which is .67 (big drop in RPMs) and not designed (or at least not recommended) to handle that type of driving. If you do not frequent the drag strip often, this is not a problem but, trust me, you will. Best bet is a LSD swapping in the rare 3.36 gears and as you increase power you will need to go taller as this setup will make STOOOPID, SCARY MPH . Now you understand why I went to the Vette IRS, LSD and 3.08, but that is another discussion. Plan on budgeting for a brake upgrade because with minor mods, the car will be capable of hi-11s and close to 120mph. Another way to look at it is 0-100mph in probably in less than 8 secs and the stock Z brakes are woeful for that situation! If you like to push your car on the street, you MUST respect that capability and have stopping power that can match the acceleration. Sorry if I am preaching.

Nickels & Dimes - The little things that you never think about when planning a swap. Whatever your budget, add 20% for this category. TRUST ME!.

I am sure I forgot a lot so ask, and join the hybridZ forum.

[Mat73GNZ]

Very nice Scottie! I'm glad you posted "Install Pt I", because I had wondered why your engine isn't up to the firewall. Very informative. Less futzing around when I'm finding the "sweet" spot for the engine in it's new home.

I have everything checked off on my list except for the plumbing (exaust, intercooler, cooling) and intercooler. Thought I had a intercooler at one point to use, but now I'm stuck looking for one. Found a water to air intercooler on eBay for $600, but I don't know about the additional plumbing as opposed to an air to air intercooler. Don't know if it's worth the hasle and higher price or not.

Going to bookmark this page for future reference when people ask about an LC2 swap in our cars.

!M!

[Travis]

thatwasgreat thanx for the info.is there someplace were they have vids of your car,i know you have some on your site but there geting old iev seen them a while ago.Ayway have you had any offers on the gnz what whould you want to get for her.

[needmorespeed]

Thanks scottie

[Jake616]

[Scottie-GNZ]

Mat,

if you do a LOT of drag racing, the A-W really shines when used with ice. On the street, the ice is impractical (unless you have an ice-maker in the hatch ..) and pure water gives no advantage over air, or at least for for the extra cost and complexity. Remember, while the water can better radiate heat, you still need ambient air through the heat exchanger to cool the water down. To do it right you need a good heat exchanger, best is a small import radiator (not coolers or condensor, etc), a storage tank for the water and ice and a pump. While the I/C itself does not have to be big, the other components take up space and add weight. IMO, especially if you are not running lots of boost, go with a good FMIC. The popular Spearco 18x6x3.5 is hard to beat and bargains can be found if you look real hard. Stay away from OEMs. Why start off with an I/C designed to support less HP than a stock LC2? Check out this site: http://www.roadraceengineering.com/intercoolers.htm

Travis,

I have several other vids not on my outdated site, but the problem is where to host them.

[1badTTA]

Scottie, what would you say would be a fair estimate for what it costs to build a hybrid Z?? I know that it can vary alot as some people have complete stage engines just laying around and others can't weld, but for example, about how much did yours cost minus the vette rear???

[Scottie-GNZ]

That is really a tough question and not sure I can answer it regarding my swap. I did the swap in Dec '99 and have been tweaking since and not keeping track.

[UR50SLO]

I wish I would have been into the Buick engines back when I had my 81 280ZX 2+2 I liked that car and the stock engine with 170,000miles still went 15.20's. It was a bit heavy for such a encounter with the buick engine.
We are in the middle of our Mustang swap. Let me tell ya this is a excellent chassis to work with. Lots of fabrication requierd to make it a car that will be easy to work on and a solid driver but I think our patience and hard work will realy pay off.
Chris just sat the engine in the bay after bolting up the tubular K member. With the firewall moved we could loosen all the bell housing bolts from up top and proably tighten down the fittings for the trany lines with ease. We moved the strut towers on each side and there's pleny of room for the 3.5"downpipe I made for the previous Fbody hybrid we had.
The frame is overly connected, the hatch area had been fitted with the basket for the fuel cell and steel cover to seperate it from the passenger compartement. Cage is next then it's my turn to flatten the body and apply 2004 PT Cruzer orange.
Hoping for 28-2900lbs. Think the factory posi 3:08's are going to work well with that weight?
Thanks for the write up on the Z.. brings back memorys.

[Scottie-GNZ]

My Z weighs in at 2,750# with me. I am running 3.07 with a 27" QTP and it does not seem to be hurting me, at least so my 60' times say .

[Travis]

scottie did u think of useing the gn 10 bolt with shortend axles or is there a problem with that?

[Scottie-GNZ]

Yes I did, but after last night's 1.36............

With the IRS I do not have to worry about lifting the wheels high and maybe breaking something and I still have a nice ride and can go around corners, quickly.

[Jake616]

Is their a video of your car anywhere Scottie or pictures? I haven't seen very many.

[Orlando_87GN]

We should get some video this weekend while racing in Reynolds GA. I was pulling up to do a burnout behind Scottie last night when he was staging. His car looks like a bomb goes off in the trunk when it launches!

[Scottie-GNZ]

Originally posted by Orlando_87GN
I was pulling up to do a burnout behind Scottie last night when he was staging. His car looks like a bomb goes off in the trunk when it launches!

DAMN!!! I was wondering what that was

Yes, I have several videos. Let me talk with "Captain Picard" and see what can be done.

"Captain, this is Scottie......we have a situation"