2003 KB Cobra vs. 1987 GN

[JRE]

There is a guy that has an ’87 GN with a bigger-than-stock turbo (I don't know the exact size though but he told me it's making 21 lbs of boost) and a custom ground Lunati stick and Keith Craft Racing did the heads on it as well. I saw the car sitting in his garage with a set of MT ET Streets on the back here about a month ago and stopped in to shoot the breeze for a while. I was in my Explorer but I told him I had the Cobra. He told me his car runs 10.0's in the thousand feet (NOT 1/4 mile) at the local track. Anyway, I had the car out last night so I stopped by to show him just so he wouldn’t think I was lying about it and sure enough he was like ‘wow, I thought you were full of it!’ Naturally he wanted to dice ‘em up a little so we headed out east of town on Hwy 412 out across the bridges. We turned around and staged them right there. He was trying to spool up the turbo before we threw down so I was patient and just let him. He finally came on so I slipped the clutch until the car started getting some traction (I had already let the air pressure down to about 22 lbs in the Nitto DR's) and when it finally bit, I didn't have much trouble driving around him. I thought maybe his car wasn’t running right. I let out of it before I even got out of 3rd gear. We slowed down and went again with pretty much the same results only this time I ran it out in 4th gear…about 145-150 mph. I was probably 2 bus lengths ahead, maybe more. We pulled over in a gas station and he was just kinda stunned. So he wanted to go from like a 45-50 mph roll. So we did and again, it wasn't really much of a race. Back at his house he just kept saying that he has never been beaten on the streets let alone spanked like that. I felt like saying ‘then you haven’t raced much on the streets much b/c there is always a faster car’ but I didn’t. It was fun for sure though and he was way cool….he loved my car and of course it goes without saying that I have always been a HUGE fan of the GN's....they were way ahead of their time. He and I both were blown away by how it just ran off from his GN b/c truth be told, those cars are no slouch. Good times....

What do you guys think? Should the race have been closer? His car has never been dyno tuned so I don't know about RWHP but he has the time slips to prove the 10.0 1000' times. I am assuming his car is good for 11.50 +/- .1 in the 1/4, something like that. My car makes right at 600 at the rear tires.

[Zap's Master and Superior]

Nice kill. I love it when the owners of improperly tuned GNs get their asses handed to them. You would be better off knowing what exactly was done to his car before you gauge your car's performance on that outing. A larger than stock turbo tells nothing at all. I don't think there is an option to get a smaller than stock turbo so he could have had one of quite of few different size/style turbos. I could go on typing forever on this but I'll just say I'm glad there are guys like you out there that keep US honest. You can't win just because the car is black and sinister looking.....it has to be tuned right and have a working combo.

[Kma697]

Hmmm........me thinks I've read this on svtperformance?????

[JRE]

Indeed....just looking for some introspection from the Buick tribe...

[chicozregal]

Originally Posted by Zap's Master and Superior

Nice kill. I love it when the owners of improperly tuned GNs get their asses handed to them. You would be better off knowing what exactly was done to his car before you gauge your car's performance on that outing. A larger than stock turbo tells nothing at all. I don't think there is an option to get a smaller than stock turbo so he could have had one of quite of few different size/style turbos. I could go on typing forever on this but I'll just say I'm glad there are guys like you out there that keep US honest. You can't win just because the car is black and sinister looking.....it has to be tuned right and have a working combo.

My thought exactly

[sr-71]

people think it's easy to run 10's , you have to have alot into any car if you want it to run 10's ( and yes, we know you could always add a bottle of Nos ) i don't use nos and although i have not run my car at the track guys with less then what i have have gone 10.6 but to run that you gotta have money in her, a chip and some injectors will not do it!.

i think the guy might have a 12 second gn, - your mustang should be in the low low 10's but thats just my , opinion

[JRE]

Like I always say: it's difficult, at best, to gage anything from street racing. I'll take the W on the street but at the track the outcome could always be different. Someone on the SVT board said that most GN's run boost in the 24-25 lb range. I don't know how accurate this is...but obviously it would make more power. He did say he would crank up the boost for the next time we hook 'em up! It was just a welcomed break from the typical guy that loses that has to come up with 101 excuses instead of just saying 'I lost'....I've had to say it my fair share of times over the years, that's for sure.

[sr-71]

agree, and your not alone, there used to be a red mustang around where i live that must have had a small jet plane under the hood, the guy always managed to beat me, EVERYTIME!! really nice guy, he loved gn's also.
and your right i run 25lbs of boost and i can really say when that 70mm DUAL BB turbo starts to go it's like a runaway train, but i always say this " even if i change to a bigger turbo, there's always someone out there faster than me.

[TLTURBO]

SR - got a question for you.
You said you don't take your car to the track and that you run 25 lbs boost. You have a few more (and larger) mods than I have and obviously make more power.

My question is HOW the hell do you run it with that much boost on the street and get any traction?

I run about 20 lbs and traction wise it is almost impossible to run it on the street. There is NO way I can run anyone from a stop or a first gear roll without a LOT of serious pedaling until about mid 2nd gear. I have 275 60 15 Nitto DR's, air bags and boxed lowers. Are you running a lot bigger tire than me? I'm suppose to get an H&R rear bar when he has some available and hopefully that will help. Just wanted to know how you do it. Some of these new cars with AWD or huge rubber are a serious threat if you can't get great traction. Even lesser cars can be a handfull if they hook immediately while I'm sideways. I'd just LOVE to be able to punch it in 1st gear from a roll and go straight with bite.

Thanks for any insight.

Terry

[sr-71]

hay TLTurbo

i run the MT drag radials and i get pretty good traction on a dry day, these tires are great when it's dry if these tires are this good i can't wait to try on slicks , the nitto's i know are good tires but i don't know how good? I can only imagine your stall converter is higher than mine i run an art carr (cpp or whatever)3200 stall 9" non-lock-up do you have your converter at 3500? i rarely power brake my car, i've only done it once and that was fooling around, the only day i went to the track , it started to rain a bit. the converter is the what i think of unless those nitto's are maybe too worn-down or they just don't grip as good? i know the nitto's are better in the rain than my MT dr's are. so what stall do you run?

another question for ya, how much boost do you leave the line with? i don't know how much power my gn is making but i can do 40 with me and my kid inside stomp on it and make a good solid cherp sound ( smoke the tires)
but i have never tried to leave the line with 3-5 lbs of boost. here are some pic's of my tires.

[TLTURBO]

You'll love slicks HA HA
This is the only car that has made my stomach feel like a carnival ride when you launch it on slicks. I was able to do that with 10 lb boost.

What size are your MT's and are they the Street drag radials? I know these Nitto's are real good in the rain but people have told me the MT's bite better. AND they are about 4 years old so probably getting hard even though they don't have many miles (1500 maybe). I can't launch at all on the street. I can roll out up to about 25, give it half throttle and it is immediately sideways.

My converter is a 9-11 with about 3000 stall.

Maybe new MT's and the H&R bar will help. Need to get the bar ordered.

Thanks - Terry here are my tires

[FatGnat]

SR, are those 325's? Looks like a friggin steam roller

Okay, I saved it down and reopened and it looks like a 275. my bad. Still looks sweet.

[sr-71]

thanks fatgnat, yeah you got it 275's and TLturbo i think it might be the tires in your case, get some MT street legal drag radials, trust me hooking will not be a problem.

[Zap's Master and Superior]

My car ran a very conservative tune @ 18psi on pumpgas it went 12.0 and there was no hope for traction on the street with a moderate launch.

[1970gsx]

I've run both the Nitto's and the MT's and there is no comparison between the two. The MT's hook so much better ont he street and the track.