Oiling issues in a 79

[kraven]

I'm having a heck of a problem, I think.
I'm a pretty decent mechanic, but not much of a Buick guy, I'll admit. But, I've learned enough about the Buick motor from this site and before black to know that the little v6 has it's own character.

Symptoms:
Oil light comes on at idle when warm and will go off if you nudge the engine speed up a bit.
Top end occasionally seems to run dry at highway speeds (a lifter/pushrod/arm starts clacking) and will shut up if I sit and idle for a minute or two.
Last night, I actually lost a cylinder going down the road and then the clattering started again and the cylinder came online again.
When all this happens, the idiot light is off.

Is this a lifter collapsing? Is the oil pump crapping out? Do I need to pull the timing cover and install the high pressure/high volume parts?

WTF?

Oh, this is an NA motor, btw.

[Ttype83]

Sounds like you are lossing prime....
Check out this thread on moding the front cover..great write up
building a front cover/oil pump part 1a

[Freddie's Regal]

Originally Posted by kraven

Symptoms: Oil light comes on at idle when warm and will go off if you nudge the engine speed up a bit.
Top end occasionally seems to run dry at highway speeds (a lifter/pushrod/arm starts clacking) and will shut up if I sit and idle for a minute or two. Last night, I actually lost a cylinder going down the road and then the clattering started again and the cylinder came online again.
When all this happens, the idiot light is off.

Is this a lifter collapsing? Is the oil pump crapping out? Do I need to pull the timing cover and install the high pressure/high volume parts?

WTF?

Oh, this is an NA motor, btw.

I've had this happen to me with three 3.8 V6's. All were at the advance stage of usage. Forget how many miles....it's how one beats the engine. (By the way your oil pressure switch is toast or the connection is off. All of my 3.8's suffered from this but the oil light always came on after a stop or at idle after it warmed up).

Oil pressure is low when hot, high when cold. At times you can get away with Heavier oil, (20-50), and a bigger oil filter. This might help. Installing a booster plate along with some longer gears and a total oil pump rebuild should be last.

Do this in steps. Start with the bigger oil filter and heavier oil. One problem you may encounter after this attempt is that after a nice long drive, at a stop or traffic light oil light may come on. (Problem is still there).

If this happens then it's time to go with a booster plate, longer gears and a total rebuild of the oil pump.

If the problem continues after all this the signs are obvious. It's time to rebuild the engine.

[Ttype83]

Freddie, read the post I did, it does away with needing a boost plate or high volume pump...this should be right up your ally..alittle over my head

[kraven]

Steps I've already taken:
I switched to a 51036 Wix filter from a crappy purolater that the p.o. had on it.
I also started running 15w40 Rotella in the motor once I found out that the zinc additive package had gone away from regular old oils and the buick has a flat tappet hydro cam.

This didn't really help matters. It just kept right on.

At this second, I have the oil pump apart and there is some scoring on the filter housing, and the bottom of the gears. The teeth on the gears are worn pretty badly and I'm pretty certain the pump needs a new set of gears.
I have a standard rebuild kit from melling with standard length gears and planned on putting the 60 lb spring in it. But, it sounds like I may need the longer gears instead and the plate.
Hard to say.
The inside of the motor is pretty black and removing the valve covers to check for loose valvetrain showed not too much crud for the mileage, but some buildup.

Think I'll try reassembling and see where that gets me. If I need to pull the cover, I already have the gaskets, but there no way I'm going that far in and not changing the chain and adjuster.

[Freddie's Regal]

Originally Posted by Ttype83

Freddie, read the post I did, it does away with needing a boost plate or high volume pump...this should be right up your ally..a little over my head

Great write up and it sounds good but I've had 100% success with the plate. Never fails. It's easier to put on a plate then it is to remove metal. (IE: Any mistakes and your downtime is extended and the job turns out a lot bigger! )

Especially if it's a daily driver and you need it for work by Monday.

Originally Posted by kraven

Steps I've already taken:
I switched to a 51036 Wix filter from a crappy purolater that the p.o. had on it.
....I have a standard rebuild kit from melling with standard length gears and planned on putting the 60 lb spring in it. But, it sounds like I may need the longer gears instead and the plate......Hard to say......

Once the bearings on the rod journals and mains have maxed out oil pressure drops like an atomic bomb. Upgrading the oil pump is the only alternative short of an entire motor rebuild. I've seen this happen quite often enough.

As for oil filters: Whatever brand you like as long as it's a cross reference to the Purolator L24011 which is a larger longer oil filter. (I used it for many years and it isn't crappy. The OEM shorter ones are. The larger ones increase the oil pressure some and that's what you want.

Wanna save some money? Here's a way to make your own booster plate. All you'll need is a piece 1/8 inch thick aluminum. Click on the Pic. Good Luck!

[kraven]

Freddie,
Thanks for the drawing. I put the pump back together and just have to button up the valve covers in the AM and then we'll see what happens.
I'm not opposed to using the longer pieces and the plate, nor am I opposed to pulling the cover and doing the mod.
I just think that if I can get another 10k miles out of this thing before it kicks off without going through a lot of trouble, I will.
Besides, I already had the parts for the kit open and oily so it was too late.

I'm sure I'll be on the way to the parts store in the morning to get more stuff, but we'll see what happens.

Thanks again

[B4turbo]

Read the "Buick power manual" guys. the info is still relevant and has to do with oil presure from the pump to the mains. Modification to the pump won't help if you aren't able to modify the oiling to the rods and the mains.

[Freddie's Regal]

Originally Posted by B4turbo

Read the "Buick power manual" guys. the info is still relevant and has to do with oil presure from the pump to the mains.

I've had it for a couple of years thanks to Rich....always refer back to it.

Originally Posted by B4turbo

...Modification to the pump won't help if you aren't able to modify the oiling to the rods and the mains.

Not true. These Jobber/machinist type mods are geared for the race track. Not nearly as necessary for a daily driver.

Kraven's oiling issue is mostly due to a worn engine. He may get by with the pump rebuild and a booster plate. This alone may buy him a few more miles. I think it's a good budget 'throw of the dice' attempt since there's no guaranty.

[kraven]

Originally Posted by Freddie's Regal

Kraven's oiling issue is mostly due to a worn engine. He may get by with the pump rebuild and a booster plate. This alone may buy him a few more miles. I think it's a good budget 'throw of the dice' attempt since there's no guaranty.

righto. The new pump is really an cheap way to find out if I can still use the motor for a while longer.
I'd like for it to get closer to xmas before I start getting serious about replacing it. By then, lots of guys will be selling stuff so they can buy more stuff for xmas and deals will abound.

So, I'm going to try resurrecting it with the pump.

[SportCoupe81]

I installed recently high volume oil pump set into my '81 turbo Regal and sandblasted oil pump bottom plate. Before that engine had very low oil pressure and it was noisy and ran roughly. After oil pump modification it is running nicely. I'ts great upgrade.