N2O or Alky?

FastRegalWE2 · 12-23-2006, 01:24 PM

Currently I have a progressive alky kit on the car. The engine is all forged and girdle, I have FAST, and Im putting a TH400 in the car (4L80E) is too much of a $$ thing for awhile now). With the loss of OD, I will probably not drive the car all that much on the street so Im trying to decide if I should remove the alky kit and run race gas and a 100-125 shot instead. If I did, am I correct in ASSuming that the N2O will cool the charge air as well as the alky did, just at a higher cost? Would this be a reasonable mod to do? I will still street drive the car but at lower boost than at the track.

teamgn87 · 12-23-2006, 04:19 PM

N2o wont just cool the air it will freeze it. The car will make a lot more power on spray and boost than on boost and alky. Alky is not a power adder it allows you to run more boost-N2o however is a power adder.But a lot of guys here are not too fond of the spray. I believe Yulllose uses n2o on one of his cars. He would probably be the guy to talk to.

socalgn · 12-25-2006, 10:32 AM

You can make more power with additional boost and alky much easier than with N20; with your setup, go dual nozzle progressive and forgot the NAWWWSSSS!

Besides, do you really want to run another fuel line to support the laughing gas?

Nashty · 01-10-2007, 09:06 PM

Nitrous is the way to go. You will make waay more power with it. A 50 shot will make more like 75.

I'm on my third bottle racing with it.

My car has a cast factory crank (cut 20/20) stock rods, TRW pistons. The rest of it is good stuff, Ported GN1's 224/224 roller cam, liquid IC...

I ran 30# of boost and a 50 shot with no damage for quite a while. I was shifting at around 6500 too. Never really hurt anything either.

The install is easy too.

VxTurboxV · 01-13-2007, 02:46 AM

I second that, biggest bang for the buck is nitrous.

Of course why not have both? I had 100+k mile fact original motor with a te-62 turbo running pump gas with progressive alky, 26lbs of boost, and a 50 shot. I always tuned for 0 knock and only ran 18* WOT timing. Never had any problems until I lost an oil cooler line and wiped the cam.

Yullose · 01-14-2007, 04:41 PM

You should be able to match your alky times running the same boost on race gas and race chip. The Nitrous will only add to the power from there.

1nasty69Z and I both run nearly identical combinations. His is on pump gas/alky and mine is on race gas. Both of us run boost around 25-27psi and both of us ran 10.90's... at the same track, the same day, the same weather conditions. About as close as you can get to a fair comparison.
The pump gas/alky combo went 10.93 & 10.97, my race gas combo went 10.95 & 10.98. Both cars went 121-122mph.

I never ran the nitrous down the track, fearing a broken axle or crankshaft with the stock unopened motor. Not to mention we both got booted from the track after our 2nd runs anyway.

Mine is still street driven pretty often (weather permitting).
All I do is swap ECM's (I have two ECMs...one race,one street), turn the WG actuator out 7 turns and the RJC manual controller out 5 turns to lower boost from 25psi to 15 psi. The chips both work good at the same fuel pressure, so I don't touch the regulator. The nitrous also works the same with either combination. Pump gas or race gas, it still works great...

As long as your combo is tuned, the nitrous is a pretty safe improvement.

The Joker · 03-16-2007, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teamgn87

N2o wont just cool the air it will freeze it. The car will make a lot more power on spray and boost than on boost and alky. Alky is not a power adder it allows you to run more boost-N2o however is a power adder.But a lot of guys here are not too fond of the spray. I believe Yulllose uses n2o on one of his cars. He would probably be the guy to talk to.

i'm off topic i know, but how did that E-303 cam work with boost with your stang?? just curious. i'm turboing my 82 coupe.

teamgn87 · 03-17-2007, 08:14 PM

Pretty good. A lot of guys use the Anderson blower cam for forced induction setups, but I really like the way the e-303 works for me.It has a decent idle and I made over 550 hp and tq at the flywheel (470 rear wheel) at 10psi with it.

The Joker · 03-23-2007, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teamgn87

Pretty good. A lot of guys use the Anderson blower cam for forced induction setups, but I really like the way the e-303 works for me.It has a decent idle and I made over 550 hp and tq at the flywheel (470 rear wheel) at 10psi with it.

thanks man. i heard the F-303 cam was the way to go. a mild or stock cam for turbo stangs. thanks though.

teamgn87 · 03-23-2007, 08:40 PM

The f-303 is not mild- the order of the cams is B,E,F,X and Z. The B cam is not best suited for forced induction--its more of a n/a cam. The E is the mildest youre gonna get. Its got more lift than the B but less duration.A better cam for forced induction. If youre not worried about idle quality and you have the valve clearance, go for the F. HTH

More_Boost!! · 03-24-2007, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nashty

Nitrous is the way to go. You will make waay more power with it. A 50 shot will make more like 75.

I'm on my third bottle racing with it.

My car has a cast factory crank (cut 20/20) stock rods, TRW pistons. The rest of it is good stuff, Ported GN1's 224/224 roller cam, liquid IC...

I ran 30# of boost and a 50 shot with no damage for quite a while. I was shifting at around 6500 too. Never really hurt anything either.

The install is easy too.

Just saw this post... 30# and a 50 shot + 6500....

Can't see it lasting long if this is actually true.

Grumpy · 03-25-2007, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by More_Boost!!

Just saw this post... 30# and a 50 shot + 6500....

Can't see it lasting long if this is actually true.

well ya gotta remember it's a really lite car also

tune better be on to

Ultimate CC · 04-12-2007, 03:03 PM

BOTH...if you can afford it...its a nasty combo that makes stupid amounts of torque, i ran both in my evo for a while and it got some mid 120 traps with only a 55 shot on stock turbo...

neat · 04-20-2007, 03:08 PM

I also think both is the way to go. You seem to kind of be in the dark on how N20 actually works though, so you might want to do some research on how the bottle works is Voo Doo before you go throwing it on your car.

Here's a couple highlights on N20;

N20 itself adds no power. If all you did was add nitrous oxide to an engine, you won't make anymore power. Nitrous oxide is an oxygen rich gas that allows you to put more oxygen into the engine than it would normally consume, which allows you to burn more fuel. The more fuel you burn, the more power you make. If all you add is oxygen without adding fuel, the burn temperature starts to climb. Eventually the burn will be hot enough to melt pistons, damage valves, etc...

Your turbo stuffs atmospheric air into the engine at a rate greater than the engine would normally consume air. That extra air allows you to burn more fuel, and make more power. The air itself it not responsible for power production, the fuel is. Nitrous is the same way. It's not responsible for the power production, the fuel is.

Alcohol is not a fuel in our case. While it does burn, it is acting almost exclusively as an anti-detonate. You are suppressing knock/detonation/preigniton with the alcohol's chemical properties. The cooling affect of alky helps, but the main benefit comes from the chemical properties of alcohol. This allows you to run more boost, to get more air, to burn more fuel, without knock. Nitrous will not suppress knock in this manner. It will cool the charge because it is incredibly cold, but it won't suppress detonation by any other means. You will have to dial back the timing, boost, or both on the bottle.

Methanol might be the way to go with nitrous. Instead of adding fuel and nitrous, add meth and nitrous. You could also possibly add alky and nitrous, but I haven't heard of anyone doing that. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible though. I don't have any idea what the jet sizes would be, but there is enough information out there on the web for you to figure it out.

Good luck, let us know what you decide to do!

vboost77 · 05-05-2007, 09:06 AM

hey guys off the topic!!!!! im buying another car to mod. and im thinking of a gn!!! what would be the first mods that u guys would do..!!!! i want to run atleast 11.20's on the motor and the add a 100 shot or run alky???? please let me know.... depends and what i have to spend ill buy a gn.... its hard when u are sponsoring a back half 3/4 chassis rx-7 that runs 8.2 on 25psi...!!!! if anyone has info im me please...thanks vicvaz

12-23-2006, 01:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
FastRegalWE2 NEVER EVER AGAIN Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mustang/Yukon, OK Posts: 842	N2O or Alky? Currently I have a progressive alky kit on the car. The engine is all forged and girdle, I have FAST, and Im putting a TH400 in the car (4L80E) is too much of a $$ thing for awhile now). With the loss of OD, I will probably not drive the car all that much on the street so Im trying to decide if I should remove the alky kit and run race gas and a 100-125 shot instead. If I did, am I correct in ASSuming that the N2O will cool the charge air as well as the alky did, just at a higher cost? Would this be a reasonable mod to do? I will still street drive the car but at lower boost than at the track. __________________ DAD-- March 14, 1947-July 22 2006 Rest In Peace Dad Police Officer 1981-2006 2002 GTP-2DR-Black-13.85 @ 99 1987 GN-Black- 554/501 http://www.cardomain.com/ride/643372

12-23-2006, 04:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
teamgn87 too many toys Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: staten island n.y. Posts: 1,056	N2o wont just cool the air it will freeze it. The car will make a lot more power on spray and boost than on boost and alky. Alky is not a power adder it allows you to run more boost-N2o however is a power adder.But a lot of guys here are not too fond of the spray. I believe Yulllose uses n2o on one of his cars. He would probably be the guy to talk to. __________________ 87 GN-TE61,60/65lb mototrons,walbro 340,ck trans,3000 stall,3"dp,3"single shot exhaust,adj.fpr.,adj wastegate,comp 980s,turbotweak chip,SM 2.1,full body brace kit,vdo guages,egt, rjc pp,Taylor 409s,homemade cold air,Snow Performance boost cooler,Eagle alloys Direct Scan, G-body parts SLIC and mini starter from Turbobuicks.com 88LX-331 ci Vortech S-trim,MSD,TFS,E-303,GT-40,Tremec,Pro-Flow,MAC,Flowmaster,31 spline strange axles,detroit diff,c-clip eliminator 03 Mercury Sable-family car 98 Eddie Bauer Expedition-car hauler 2007 Suzuki Hayabusa GSXR 1300-Slip-ons,frame sliders,Xenon lighting,blue led kit--makes things blurry, QUICKLY! Friends dont let friends drive naturally aspirated.

12-25-2006, 10:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
socalgn Transplant Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: in my dreams, WA Posts: 430	You can make more power with additional boost and alky much easier than with N20; with your setup, go dual nozzle progressive and forgot the NAWWWSSSS! Besides, do you really want to run another fuel line to support the laughing gas? __________________ yeah, ya just got waxed by Grandpa's Buick......... 87 GN- work in progress...AND COMPLETED!!!! 95 Impala SS- SOLD! 2001 Excursion Limited diesel 2005 Suzuki C-50 Boulevard Cruiser- Sold 2001 Saturn LW300 wagon More toys on the horizon 1997 540i....turbo setup is in the works!

01-13-2007, 02:46 AM	#5 (permalink)
VxTurboxV Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 1,724	I second that, biggest bang for the buck is nitrous. Of course why not have both? I had 100+k mile fact original motor with a te-62 turbo running pump gas with progressive alky, 26lbs of boost, and a 50 shot. I always tuned for 0 knock and only ran 18* WOT timing. Never had any problems until I lost an oil cooler line and wiped the cam. __________________ 86 Rx-7 GXL Hybrid 86 Grand National motor and trans. TRW pistons, Webber ported IRONS, Extender chip,Translator plus,Te-45a, Vig.Torque Conv.(3500), Trans Cooler, 55lb inj's, 10mm Race Wires, Adj. FP Regulator,RJC PP ,FMIC 18x32 spearco bar&plate, Custom 3 inch mandrel DP, postons X-over pipe. deltagate WG, 3.27 rear, WB 02 255 60 MT Progressive alky, 1 m15 nozzle. Best E.T. 10.65 Best MPH 131.4 Still tuning.

01-14-2007, 04:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
Yullose Certified gun nut Join Date: May 2005 Location: Mooresville, NC Posts: 1,389	You should be able to match your alky times running the same boost on race gas and race chip. The Nitrous will only add to the power from there. 1nasty69Z and I both run nearly identical combinations. His is on pump gas/alky and mine is on race gas. Both of us run boost around 25-27psi and both of us ran 10.90's... at the same track, the same day, the same weather conditions. About as close as you can get to a fair comparison. The pump gas/alky combo went 10.93 & 10.97, my race gas combo went 10.95 & 10.98. Both cars went 121-122mph. I never ran the nitrous down the track, fearing a broken axle or crankshaft with the stock unopened motor. Not to mention we both got booted from the track after our 2nd runs anyway. Mine is still street driven pretty often (weather permitting). All I do is swap ECM's (I have two ECMs...one race,one street), turn the WG actuator out 7 turns and the RJC manual controller out 5 turns to lower boost from 25psi to 15 psi. The chips both work good at the same fuel pressure, so I don't touch the regulator. The nitrous also works the same with either combination. Pump gas or race gas, it still works great... As long as your combo is tuned, the nitrous is a pretty safe improvement. __________________ '87 GN...(SOLD Fall '07) Best ET: 10.95@122...1.54 60ft...(25psi/C16) NO Nitrous...NO Alky...On a STOCK UNOPENED LONGBLOCK...PT6776e...PTE FMIC...MSD50's...Razors Dual nozzle Alky system...Turbotweak chips...Big Mouth cold air kit...LS1 MAF...Trans+...TH400w/transbrake...10"/3000converter...100HP NOS kit . Last edited by Yullose : 01-14-2007 at 04:54 PM.

01-10-2007, 09:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
Nashty Metro6ual Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Illinois Posts: 358	Nitrous is the way to go. You will make waay more power with it. A 50 shot will make more like 75. I'm on my third bottle racing with it. My car has a cast factory crank (cut 20/20) stock rods, TRW pistons. The rest of it is good stuff, Ported GN1's 224/224 roller cam, liquid IC... I ran 30# of boost and a 50 shot with no damage for quite a while. I was shifting at around 6500 too. Never really hurt anything either. The install is easy too.

03-17-2007, 08:14 PM	#8 (permalink)
teamgn87 too many toys Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: staten island n.y. Posts: 1,056	Pretty good. A lot of guys use the Anderson blower cam for forced induction setups, but I really like the way the e-303 works for me.It has a decent idle and I made over 550 hp and tq at the flywheel (470 rear wheel) at 10psi with it. __________________ 87 GN-TE61,60/65lb mototrons,walbro 340,ck trans,3000 stall,3"dp,3"single shot exhaust,adj.fpr.,adj wastegate,comp 980s,turbotweak chip,SM 2.1,full body brace kit,vdo guages,egt, rjc pp,Taylor 409s,homemade cold air,Snow Performance boost cooler,Eagle alloys Direct Scan, G-body parts SLIC and mini starter from Turbobuicks.com 88LX-331 ci Vortech S-trim,MSD,TFS,E-303,GT-40,Tremec,Pro-Flow,MAC,Flowmaster,31 spline strange axles,detroit diff,c-clip eliminator 03 Mercury Sable-family car 98 Eddie Bauer Expedition-car hauler 2007 Suzuki Hayabusa GSXR 1300-Slip-ons,frame sliders,Xenon lighting,blue led kit--makes things blurry, QUICKLY! Friends dont let friends drive naturally aspirated.

03-23-2007, 08:40 PM	#10 (permalink)
teamgn87 too many toys Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: staten island n.y. Posts: 1,056	The f-303 is not mild- the order of the cams is B,E,F,X and Z. The B cam is not best suited for forced induction--its more of a n/a cam. The E is the mildest youre gonna get. Its got more lift than the B but less duration.A better cam for forced induction. If youre not worried about idle quality and you have the valve clearance, go for the F. HTH __________________ 87 GN-TE61,60/65lb mototrons,walbro 340,ck trans,3000 stall,3"dp,3"single shot exhaust,adj.fpr.,adj wastegate,comp 980s,turbotweak chip,SM 2.1,full body brace kit,vdo guages,egt, rjc pp,Taylor 409s,homemade cold air,Snow Performance boost cooler,Eagle alloys Direct Scan, G-body parts SLIC and mini starter from Turbobuicks.com 88LX-331 ci Vortech S-trim,MSD,TFS,E-303,GT-40,Tremec,Pro-Flow,MAC,Flowmaster,31 spline strange axles,detroit diff,c-clip eliminator 03 Mercury Sable-family car 98 Eddie Bauer Expedition-car hauler 2007 Suzuki Hayabusa GSXR 1300-Slip-ons,frame sliders,Xenon lighting,blue led kit--makes things blurry, QUICKLY! Friends dont let friends drive naturally aspirated.

04-12-2007, 03:03 PM	#13 (permalink)
Ultimate CC Alky/Meth/H2O Injection Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 17	BOTH...if you can afford it...its a nasty combo that makes stupid amounts of torque, i ran both in my evo for a while and it got some mid 120 traps with only a 55 shot on stock turbo...

04-20-2007, 03:08 PM	#14 (permalink)
neat Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 114	I also think both is the way to go. You seem to kind of be in the dark on how N20 actually works though, so you might want to do some research on how the bottle works is Voo Doo before you go throwing it on your car. Here's a couple highlights on N20; N20 itself adds no power. If all you did was add nitrous oxide to an engine, you won't make anymore power. Nitrous oxide is an oxygen rich gas that allows you to put more oxygen into the engine than it would normally consume, which allows you to burn more fuel. The more fuel you burn, the more power you make. If all you add is oxygen without adding fuel, the burn temperature starts to climb. Eventually the burn will be hot enough to melt pistons, damage valves, etc... Your turbo stuffs atmospheric air into the engine at a rate greater than the engine would normally consume air. That extra air allows you to burn more fuel, and make more power. The air itself it not responsible for power production, the fuel is. Nitrous is the same way. It's not responsible for the power production, the fuel is. Alcohol is not a fuel in our case. While it does burn, it is acting almost exclusively as an anti-detonate. You are suppressing knock/detonation/preigniton with the alcohol's chemical properties. The cooling affect of alky helps, but the main benefit comes from the chemical properties of alcohol. This allows you to run more boost, to get more air, to burn more fuel, without knock. Nitrous will not suppress knock in this manner. It will cool the charge because it is incredibly cold, but it won't suppress detonation by any other means. You will have to dial back the timing, boost, or both on the bottle. Methanol might be the way to go with nitrous. Instead of adding fuel and nitrous, add meth and nitrous. You could also possibly add alky and nitrous, but I haven't heard of anyone doing that. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible though. I don't have any idea what the jet sizes would be, but there is enough information out there on the web for you to figure it out. Good luck, let us know what you decide to do! __________________ 87 Buick Regal limited - 13.3 @ 102 - Straight pipe - Kenne Bell chip - 18 PSI - 100 octane - Last edited by neat : 04-20-2007 at 03:12 PM.

05-05-2007, 09:06 AM	#15 (permalink)
vboost77 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Lantana, Florida Posts: 12	hey guys off the topic!!!!! im buying another car to mod. and im thinking of a gn!!! what would be the first mods that u guys would do..!!!! i want to run atleast 11.20's on the motor and the add a 100 shot or run alky???? please let me know.... depends and what i have to spend ill buy a gn.... its hard when u are sponsoring a back half 3/4 chassis rx-7 that runs 8.2 on 25psi...!!!! if anyone has info im me please...thanks vicvaz

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode