Need help with more volume/additional nozzle. Julio?

VxTurboxV · 09-24-2006, 05:40 PM

With 42lb injectors I have my T+ set to max rich setting. This nets about a 11.9:1 a/f with the progressive alcohol kit on at 28ish lbs of boost.

Max alky pressure is about 120psi. M5 nozzle I believe? Bought it from Alkycontrol.com. Maybe U could look up which one I bought Julio? (Adam Opheim)

With the 30 shot of n20 I'm hitting about 13:1 A/F on the WB02. Got around .2* of knock a few times at 25lbs and I let up. I'd like to use another alky nozzle to counter the N20 shot and get my a/fs back in the safe range.

I was thinking of adding a 2gpm nozzle? I could always pull a little more fuel and replace it with alky and run more timing if I go to big on the second nozzle right?

Or maybe just up the size nozzle I have since I'm not even sure which one I am running?

How should I go about his guys...

Thanks!

Razor · 09-25-2006, 09:39 PM

Dont know. Records dont go that far back.

Your sig says DIY, you mention progressive, and then you state 120 PSI.

Who's progressive? What model pump? What size lines to and from pump-nozzle? What type of alcohol?

BTW running 11.9 and then hitting nitrous.. your crazy.

thats a perfect recipe for hole-in-tha-piston scenario.

VxTurboxV · 09-26-2006, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

Dont know. Records dont go that far back.

Your sig says DIY, you mention progressive, and then you state 120 PSI.

Who's progressive? What model pump? What size lines to and from pump-nozzle? What type of alcohol?

BTW running 11.9 and then hitting nitrous.. your crazy.

thats a perfect recipe for hole-in-tha-piston scenario.

Whoops...

I sure dont' want that!

What A/f would you shoot for? With and without the N20?

I'm removing the nitrous from my combo. But I was only spraying a 30 shot and was running about 5 gallons of 110 octane. I didn't get any KR until it got really cold then only .9 but I stopped useing the N20 after I got KR.

Current setup will be 91 oct pump gas 100% and methanol inj.

Running a shurflo 1.8 gpm pump set at 120psi peak, AN4 SS lines and 100% methanol. With progressive devils own controller and I'm pretty sure one of your m15 nozzles? I remember just asking you for the nozzle that comes with the basic kit. Alky is set to come on around 7lbs and be 100% on at 25.

Anyway I've been trapping in the 120-122 range at 27ish lbs. I think I need a larger nozzle or possibly an additional one. Since I am useing a progressive controller could I just install the largest nozzle U have and adjust the controller accordingly?

Also I have a 2.8 GPM shurflo pump new in the box. Would this up the volume at all or would the nozzle restrict it to much? Would I even need the larger pump if I were to add a larger or additional nozzle?

What would U suggest?

Thanks, I really appreciate it!

Razor · 09-26-2006, 07:12 AM

The largest nozzle available is an M15.

Unles you drill it out to a larger orfice.

I cant help you on the controller deal.. you'll need to contact Chance on that, and you've made your own decisions on the pump/lines.

I can get 200 PSI out of the same pump.. Actually 250 on water.. so I dont know why your only getting 120

But I didnt design the system.. so dont know.

Your AFR tairget moves down the more methanol you shoot in. As the stoich on meth is lower than the stoich on gas. 11.9 would be a nice ratio on straight pump gas/race gas. Then depending on volume that is brought down.

Example my buddy Richie ran 9.88 at 138 on 100 unleaded and methanol two weeks ago.. 109 block 87 T-type.. his AFR was 10.5:1

VxTurboxV · 09-26-2006, 12:38 PM

Would drilling out my current nozzle cause atomization problems? What size would you reccomend if I were to do this?

I think I'll try another nozzle. I just checked my pump pressure and its around 170. Bouncing the needle around violently so it's hard to tell. Would U suggest a 2.8 GPM pump with the added nozzle or should the 1.8 be pleanty @ 170psi? Also would U go with another m15 or would U suggest a smaller size?

I don't expect U to know all the answers esp with my awkward setup. An edjucated guess from someone who knows alky inj is all I'm looking for.

Thanks alot all great info!

Razor · 09-26-2006, 08:42 PM

Alcohol is used to suppress knock. If your getting knock, you add alcohol. If your not getting knock.. you dont.

Alcohol is not used to control air fuel ratio. Your injectors, fuel system, and engine management(chip) are used for that.

The controller aids in getting you the proper amount of alcohol as the engine comes up on boost to keep your air fuel ratios stable. And regulate how much alcohol your pumping into the motor. So the curving on the controller dictates how that happens. Wrong curve, slows the 330 down on the car.

Your asking to add nozzles when your not getting knock. But think that adding nozzles is a majical fix all to fueling issues your are having. Problem with DIY systems is your trying to figure out your issues that have been self created

and then you start realizing at a certain point a specific level of expertise is needed to get things where you want them to be.

No majic wands are available.. and the whole system has to be rite if you ever plan on reaching the vehicles potential. Car as lite as yours with your current nozzle is more than plenty. Tuning it and teaching you how to tune it are two other issues. And I am limited on my time helping since technically you dont have my "system".

HTH

VxTurboxV · 09-27-2006, 01:12 PM

Point taken. But when you see hybrids like John Lindsay's with a 2 stage DIY methanol kit and 40lb injectors running 10.0x's@ 134 Theres something to be said for useing methanol for more than suppressing detonation.

Grumpy · 10-02-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VxTurboxV

Point taken. But when you see hybrids like John Lindsay's with a 2 stage DIY methanol kit and 40lb injectors running 10.0x's@ 134 Theres something to be said for useing methanol for more than suppressing detonation.

Maybe you should be emailing John to see how his works

VxTurboxV · 10-02-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Maybe you should be emailing John to see how his works

Already tried, either he's busy or doesn't care to tell me.

I'll figure it out.

John Lindsay · 10-03-2006, 12:54 AM

I just e-mail you sorry just don't check as much (school is in) I run ethanal- it's free

VxTurboxV · 10-03-2006, 03:13 PM

Might help some people.

Installed 2nd m15 nozzle. Both come on at 5lbs and fully activate at 25lbs on a progressive controller. Running straight methanol.

Went out for short road test.

Pretty sure my WB 02 sensor is broken. Although it seems to read correct at cruise. WOT A/F stays the same almost 13:1 wot. Even if I turn the boost down to 15lbs and run both nozzles wide open. The car stutters loading up on fuel (like it should) but my A/f's stay the same. At the same time my egt probe seems to be not working suddenly.

I think the prespool option on my chip burnt out my egt and my WB02 sensor! Although I'm not sure of this it is my best guess. I think I'll turn that off.

Technically I shouldn't even need it.

Anyway car seems to run fine. Ran 27lbs no knock. Even in OD. I'll see if I can get the egt's and A/f sorted out and then I'll start throwing timing at it. And post results.

Also took some good advice and ordered bigger injectors (55#) and a new chip. Should be in by the end of the week. Although these will probably go on the new motor if I find that installing the 2md m15 nozzle keeps my A/F's in the safe range and eliminates my knock problem.

09-24-2006, 05:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
VxTurboxV Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 1,724	Need help with more volume/additional nozzle. Julio? With 42lb injectors I have my T+ set to max rich setting. This nets about a 11.9:1 a/f with the progressive alcohol kit on at 28ish lbs of boost. Max alky pressure is about 120psi. M5 nozzle I believe? Bought it from Alkycontrol.com. Maybe U could look up which one I bought Julio? (Adam Opheim) With the 30 shot of n20 I'm hitting about 13:1 A/F on the WB02. Got around .2* of knock a few times at 25lbs and I let up. I'd like to use another alky nozzle to counter the N20 shot and get my a/fs back in the safe range. I was thinking of adding a 2gpm nozzle? I could always pull a little more fuel and replace it with alky and run more timing if I go to big on the second nozzle right? Or maybe just up the size nozzle I have since I'm not even sure which one I am running? How should I go about his guys... Thanks! __________________ 86 Rx-7 GXL Hybrid 86 Grand National motor and trans. TRW pistons, Webber ported IRONS, Extender chip,Translator plus,Te-45a, Vig.Torque Conv.(3500), Trans Cooler, 55lb inj's, 10mm Race Wires, Adj. FP Regulator,RJC PP ,FMIC 18x32 spearco bar&plate, Custom 3 inch mandrel DP, postons X-over pipe. deltagate WG, 3.27 rear, WB 02 255 60 MT Progressive alky, 1 m15 nozzle. Best E.T. 10.65 Best MPH 131.4 Still tuning. Last edited by VxTurboxV : 09-24-2006 at 05:43 PM.

09-26-2006, 12:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
VxTurboxV Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 1,724	Would drilling out my current nozzle cause atomization problems? What size would you reccomend if I were to do this? I think I'll try another nozzle. I just checked my pump pressure and its around 170. Bouncing the needle around violently so it's hard to tell. Would U suggest a 2.8 GPM pump with the added nozzle or should the 1.8 be pleanty @ 170psi? Also would U go with another m15 or would U suggest a smaller size? I don't expect U to know all the answers esp with my awkward setup. An edjucated guess from someone who knows alky inj is all I'm looking for. Thanks alot all great info! __________________ 86 Rx-7 GXL Hybrid 86 Grand National motor and trans. TRW pistons, Webber ported IRONS, Extender chip,Translator plus,Te-45a, Vig.Torque Conv.(3500), Trans Cooler, 55lb inj's, 10mm Race Wires, Adj. FP Regulator,RJC PP ,FMIC 18x32 spearco bar&plate, Custom 3 inch mandrel DP, postons X-over pipe. deltagate WG, 3.27 rear, WB 02 255 60 MT Progressive alky, 1 m15 nozzle. Best E.T. 10.65 Best MPH 131.4 Still tuning. Last edited by VxTurboxV : 09-26-2006 at 03:34 PM.

09-27-2006, 01:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
VxTurboxV Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 1,724	Point taken. But when you see hybrids like John Lindsay's with a 2 stage DIY methanol kit and 40lb injectors running 10.0x's@ 134 Theres something to be said for useing methanol for more than suppressing detonation. __________________ 86 Rx-7 GXL Hybrid 86 Grand National motor and trans. TRW pistons, Webber ported IRONS, Extender chip,Translator plus,Te-45a, Vig.Torque Conv.(3500), Trans Cooler, 55lb inj's, 10mm Race Wires, Adj. FP Regulator,RJC PP ,FMIC 18x32 spearco bar&plate, Custom 3 inch mandrel DP, postons X-over pipe. deltagate WG, 3.27 rear, WB 02 255 60 MT Progressive alky, 1 m15 nozzle. Best E.T. 10.65 Best MPH 131.4 Still tuning.

10-03-2006, 03:13 PM	#11 (permalink)
VxTurboxV Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 1,724	Update Might help some people. Installed 2nd m15 nozzle. Both come on at 5lbs and fully activate at 25lbs on a progressive controller. Running straight methanol. Went out for short road test. Pretty sure my WB 02 sensor is broken. Although it seems to read correct at cruise. WOT A/F stays the same almost 13:1 wot. Even if I turn the boost down to 15lbs and run both nozzles wide open. The car stutters loading up on fuel (like it should) but my A/f's stay the same. At the same time my egt probe seems to be not working suddenly. I think the prespool option on my chip burnt out my egt and my WB02 sensor! Although I'm not sure of this it is my best guess. I think I'll turn that off. Technically I shouldn't even need it. Anyway car seems to run fine. Ran 27lbs no knock. Even in OD. I'll see if I can get the egt's and A/f sorted out and then I'll start throwing timing at it. And post results. Also took some good advice and ordered bigger injectors (55#) and a new chip. Should be in by the end of the week. Although these will probably go on the new motor if I find that installing the 2md m15 nozzle keeps my A/F's in the safe range and eliminates my knock problem. __________________ 86 Rx-7 GXL Hybrid 86 Grand National motor and trans. TRW pistons, Webber ported IRONS, Extender chip,Translator plus,Te-45a, Vig.Torque Conv.(3500), Trans Cooler, 55lb inj's, 10mm Race Wires, Adj. FP Regulator,RJC PP ,FMIC 18x32 spearco bar&plate, Custom 3 inch mandrel DP, postons X-over pipe. deltagate WG, 3.27 rear, WB 02 255 60 MT Progressive alky, 1 m15 nozzle. Best E.T. 10.65 Best MPH 131.4 Still tuning. Last edited by VxTurboxV : 10-03-2006 at 03:17 PM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

09-25-2006, 09:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
Razor Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 883	Dont know. Records dont go that far back. Your sig says DIY, you mention progressive, and then you state 120 PSI. Who's progressive? What model pump? What size lines to and from pump-nozzle? What type of alcohol? BTW running 11.9 and then hitting nitrous.. your crazy. thats a perfect recipe for hole-in-tha-piston scenario.

09-26-2006, 07:12 AM	#4 (permalink)
Razor Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 883	The largest nozzle available is an M15. Unles you drill it out to a larger orfice. I cant help you on the controller deal.. you'll need to contact Chance on that, and you've made your own decisions on the pump/lines. I can get 200 PSI out of the same pump.. Actually 250 on water.. so I dont know why your only getting 120 But I didnt design the system.. so dont know. Your AFR tairget moves down the more methanol you shoot in. As the stoich on meth is lower than the stoich on gas. 11.9 would be a nice ratio on straight pump gas/race gas. Then depending on volume that is brought down. Example my buddy Richie ran 9.88 at 138 on 100 unleaded and methanol two weeks ago.. 109 block 87 T-type.. his AFR was 10.5:1

09-26-2006, 08:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
Razor Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 883	Alcohol is used to suppress knock. If your getting knock, you add alcohol. If your not getting knock.. you dont. Alcohol is not used to control air fuel ratio. Your injectors, fuel system, and engine management(chip) are used for that. The controller aids in getting you the proper amount of alcohol as the engine comes up on boost to keep your air fuel ratios stable. And regulate how much alcohol your pumping into the motor. So the curving on the controller dictates how that happens. Wrong curve, slows the 330 down on the car. Your asking to add nozzles when your not getting knock. But think that adding nozzles is a majical fix all to fueling issues your are having. Problem with DIY systems is your trying to figure out your issues that have been self created and then you start realizing at a certain point a specific level of expertise is needed to get things where you want them to be. No majic wands are available.. and the whole system has to be rite if you ever plan on reaching the vehicles potential. Car as lite as yours with your current nozzle is more than plenty. Tuning it and teaching you how to tune it are two other issues. And I am limited on my time helping since technically you dont have my "system". HTH