Alky control kits ???

[tomcat87gn]

I have been researching alky kits and man this site is full of great info but I an wondering if I purchase an alky kit then do I have to purchase a progressive controller also before I can use it, and from what I have read Razors kit is probably the way to go on a turbo Regal. After installing alky kit can car be tuned with just scanmaster or does it have to be tuned some other way

[buickv6]

Your scanmaster will work fine for tuning as well as a boost guage and you can also buy cheaper kits without a progressive controller but I wouldn't.

[stevemon]

Progressive controllers are over-rated and not needed. You'll gain twice the HP by spending that money elsewhere and if the failsafe feature of the alky volume matching boost no matter how high the boost goes like when a wastegate hose comes off, just add a 2nd nozzle & hobbs switch set to 26 psi and it'll cost you under $50.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by stevemon

Progressive controllers are over-rated and not needed. You'll gain twice the HP by spending that money elsewhere and if the failsafe feature of the alky volume matching boost no matter how high the boost goes like when a wastegate hose comes off, just add a 2nd nozzle & hobbs switch set to 26 psi and it'll cost you under $50.

I 100% disagree. Especially with cars that pin the MAF to 255.. once you hit 255 the chip doesnt add anymore fueling. Having a system that tracks of off boost will keep adding fuel as the boost keeps increasing. Meaning less tuning headaches.

Your entitled to your opinion.. as I am mine. At least I can show results instead of a sig line that hasnt changed in years.

There is a class at BG this year called TA for turbo alcohol.. your more than welcome to compete and "show" what you know

Stay to making TB

[stevemon]

It comes down to two differing opinions really. For starters, if I thought a progressive alky controller was great for each and every application than I'd be saying that. I believe that the majority of cars using your kit would gain more HP by spending that extra $$$ elsewhere instead of on a PAC.

And then you get pissed and called me & my stock GN out to race against you in BG.

All I can say to that is you're a control freak Dude. Chill out and get back in the real world.

One last thing... I don't sell alky kits so why would I have an agenda to advance against your controller? OTOH, I can see where you're coming from.

[Razor]

I dont need to show my car is faster than yours. The reason its faster is becuase i've kept furthering the research involved in making it so. This research comes with knowledge/time/and money.. and the results i've been posting now for years. It was faster when it was stock..

My 'old TTA has a 58mm tb and ran 10.99 about a week ago.. full weight.. do I come here and say.. dont send Steve the TB for him to modify.. I dont get involved. But you got involved when you said "Progressive controllers are over-rated and not needed". Thats when I called you out.

Better money spent.. start a new thread and show "ME" how. Instead of putting something down.. how bout putting something up..

Instead of praising, your hating.. and it is this hate that has you where you are.

I take a lot of pride in what I do.. that is why I responded.

I probably wont be racing in the TA class in May since i'll be tech(giving time to it), I will be racing the car at BG.. and from now until May

I can say this. I have the "Fastest Stock Block TTA".. does it have a progressive controller.. you bet. Could the results be done without one, absolutely not.

[wes 87 turbo T]

WERD! I think the thing said about coming on here to put something down is true. People are so against it & post all the time about it. But when they sell something themselves it is the best. WHY? I am gonna need a heart transplant in the next 10 years because I eat to many potato chips. So I am gonna put down the local hospital surgeons, then go find a monkey, rip the heart out with a leatherman tool, then proceed to cut my own chest open meanwhile put it in & sew it up all on my own. Because I am to hardheaded & want to prove that I am so smart. To downgrade something that doesnt benefit me eitherway. JMO. Let people work hard at what they do. If they make money then more power to them for the hard work. If you do it yourself & go slow then so be it. But until you put in 80 plus hours a week to make an honest living & give people incredible customer service dont jump all over it. JMO.

Tomcat87gn. Do your research. I am not telling you to buy from razor, coolingmist, etc. Make your own decision. Everyone doesnt like the same restauraunt but I definitely dont like 39 cent hamburgers that give indegestion. I will go to applebees.

[stevemon]

I dont need to show my car is faster than yours

Isn't that what you just did when you called me out? Make up your mind.

when you said "Progressive controllers are over-rated and not needed". Thats when I called you out.

Sure strange that for 6 or 8 years we all ran alky kits w/o progressive controllers and I don't recall any discussions where ppl were asking for their developement.
You can create a product and that's fine. I compliment you on the technical know-how to do so (tho it looks like many others also have the same skills) but without comparison results how do you say there's a NEED for your product ?

Better money spent.. start a new thread and show "ME" how. Instead of putting something down.. how bout putting something up..

You have this all wrong Julio. I think it's up to you to show the benefit of your controller if you want people to send you their money for it. How about we take a car, install a DIY or Cooling Mist on it and spend an equal amount on a Dutt neck for the intercooler or a Hooker exhaust and a ported elbow. Then take an equal car with the same $ spent on your PAC & kit. Bottom line is, when it's all said and done, the car with the PAC kit is gonna lose the race. Care to argue that?

And BTW, This issue isn't worthy of hatred. I only hope to shine a light on those who have an agenda for creating a market where there is none or little need for it. I'll go out on a limb some and agree that maybe with a few cars there's a niche market but the average TR isn't getting the best bang for the buck by listening to you. That's my target audience. Not personal at you.

[Grumpy]

there is allways different ways to skin a cat I do like "junk" that is tested and pushed in real life .. thats the way I drive

[87bigcut]

I thought that WOT fueling was based upon a projected curve in the PROM? I am pretty sure that after the MAF goes to 255 the prom will continue to add fuel.

"I 100% disagree. Especially with cars that pin the MAF to 255.. once you hit 255 the chip doesnt add anymore fueling. Having a system that tracks of off boost will keep adding fuel as the boost keeps increasing. Meaning less tuning headaches."

Are you mixing the gasoline fueling in with the alky fueling here?? Seems like you are simplifying a lot.

Personally, I dont have 500 to spend on a progressive kit right now. I may upgrade in the future or build my own as an EE, but college bills and gas money take priority.

It probably is easier to tune a progressive kit, but if you read some of the DIY stuff out there it really doesn't seem that bad. IMHO of course.

Joe

[Razor]

Originally Posted by stevemon

Sure strange that for 6 or 8 years we all ran alky kits w/o progressive controllers and I don't recall any discussions where ppl were asking for their developement.

For 6-8 years people were stuck in the 11's and 12's on pump gas. Please find the posts of anyone going faster than that pre 2003 on a 109 block Buick.

Hell find me any posts someone going faster than an 11.0 on a 109 block Buick non progressive..

Your happy running 12's.. great. You dont need this product. Just like you dont need heads/cam/IC/TB/etc.. go fast parts.. but dont put stuff down you dont know anything about.

SMC, Cooling Mist, Snow, Devilsown, etc all make progressives now.. Guess you know more than everyone.


87bigcut, you wrote "I thought that WOT fueling was based upon a projected curve in the PROM? I am pretty sure that after the MAF goes to 255 the prom will continue to add fuel." Please explain how the prom knows. There is no projected curve. I'll let you dig for this info.. wanna bet If you dont have the $$.. then dont race your motor. Cuase when it breaks.. you wont be able and fix it.

[buickv6]

I've run Steve's DIY kit and it works, but I find it best suited for a car that does not get "played" with. I was running a single .040 nozzle, any larger I recommend dual nozzle to smooth out the transition which obviously adds to the cost. If your running a stock or te44 in your daily driver go for it. If your running a larger turbo that sees drag duty then get progressive. IMHO

[Razor]

Originally Posted by stevemon

You have this all wrong Julio. I think it's up to you to show the benefit of your controller if you want people to send you their money for it. How about we take a car, install a DIY or Cooling Mist on it and spend an equal amount on a Dutt neck for the intercooler or a Hooker exhaust and a ported elbow. Then take an equal car with the same $ spent on your PAC & kit. Bottom line is, when it's all said and done, the car with the PAC kit is gonna lose the race. Care to argue that?

I ran 11.40 with an untouched IC, 58 MM tb, and a car 400 lbs heavier than yours on pump gas.

The car with the PAC kit will kick your arse

Dutt neck, ported elbow..=BS

The biggest difference is I know how to tune one of these motors.. proof.. my time slips.

How bout this.. Fastest stock turbo, stock IC, stock longblock, Buick in the land.. 11.37 at 116.50 on 92 octane and my PAC system. Backed up with an 11.44. Car ran 11.7's in BG last year on pump gas..

Show me someone faster.. dinner is served

[buickv6]

Desired boost level must be specified when ordering mostly all chips. Any substantial deviation from this boost level and fueling will not be correct. If one wants fueling control after the stock maf reads 255 then an extender and ls1 maf is one option.

[stevemon]

Julio, Tod F & Kevin E in Okc both went 10s in 2002 or earlier on 109s and non progressives. Kevin did his on a DIY at 29 psi with no knock. Why do you always assume you know all there is to know.

FYI, Most of the TRs in existance are in the 11s or 12s.

Fine enough that you may have an item that performs well for the handful of cars it adds a good bang for the buck to but I'm here saying that it's a waste on most of the TRs in the country.

Now you ask why does everyone sell PACs? Because they are vendors who have figured out that they'll get more money that way. Doh!

Funny nobody can show a horsepower gain with one vs money spent elsewhere.