Alky control kits ???

[Razor]

Difference is I race my car with the product. That is how product development happens. You said show me.. how else? Time slip? Picture? dyno graph? want em.. I got em.

My TTA weighs 3600. 3850 with me in it. The roll bar, subframes, girdle, 9 inch, etc all add weight to the base weight of 3450.. yes it costs money So what when there are those with 3x the money spent and way slower.

I have nothing to prove to you. On the contrary.. your the one claiming it doesnt work, is not needed, can be done cheaper, etc.. Your means are fine for you.. thats ok... just dont get into things you know nothing about.

No amount of proof will suffice for some. You think I majically have a car that runs mid 10's on pump gas? That wand comes at a price. Keep thinking its just a nozzle and a pump..

Have a great week

[nero]

Originally Posted by stevemon

Now go prove that a $500 alky kit on a stock TR will beat a TR with $500 spent in any manner at all. You do that and I'll go buy one. (from Snow Performance )

Not instigating or 'throwing gas on teh fire', as I see this as a healthy debate--nothing wrong with that!

Hey Steve, you have to be fair... a stock TR with alky vs a modded TR ($500 limit)... that's not fair, especially if the former TR can't upgrade its injectors. Let's make the challenge fair AND I'd love to see some results from it!

... and shake hands after

[stevemon]

The point I wanted to make is, take two stock TRs & give each $500. On one, install an Alky Control system. On the other, do a Cooling Mist off the shelf system and spend the remainder on what ever else you like. Which car will go faster? I don't need to guess but I know someone that doesn't want that fact to be known and he literally pissed in his cream of wheat in this thread dancing around the issue. I'm done. The facts are facts and the jury is in.

[socalgn]

Sounds like a good challenge to me! Best thing about the results- it adds to the database on the cars. No one solution is the most correct, but all the same, research is research, and we all benefit.

So, when are you two going to do it?

[Razor]

I'm game..

How do we keep this fair? How bout a stock TR $1000 buildup. Using new parts.. no used/junk parts.

Or eliminate certain parts like scanmasterII, walbro 340, test pipe, HD actuator for the turbo, a set of upgraded injectors, valve springs, fresh tuneup, and a set of real tires.

All I need is a stocker with the basic mods, a chip to my specs.. you can have the same vehicle. Actually there is a car here locally i'll probably be working on next few weeks that fits the bill. Ran 13.3 with drag radials

So my budget is 600 bucks to cover the new alky kit and new chip.

You can spend the 600 as well. Document how you'll make more power with less using new parts.

Labor time is also part of this. Time spent tweaking should also be documented. Modifications that require labor go into it as well. Like welding a neck onto an IC.

Setting myself up eh?

[CUTLASS85]

I like razor's initiative to prove his product in a reasonable real world application....

Make this happen guys... we all want to see the results

[nero]

I want some credit for changing the pissing match into a useful challenge that'll benefit a good number of TR owners!!



GET THIS GOING!!

[socalgn]

Originally Posted by nero

I want some credit for changing the pissing match into a useful challenge that'll benefit a good number of TR owners!!



GET THIS GOING!!

So noted- Nero started it.

[stevemon]

I proposed the issue for the benefit of YOU guys. If YOU want it - Do it. Go email Cooling Mist. I have no financial stake in this & therefore won't expend time & money testing any cars.

[stevemon]

My last two cents on this:

Anyone wanting a progressive controller would be well advised to get one from one of the other vendors. I'm sure you'll be dealt with in a professional manner by someone who doesn't attempt to control information with
chickensh!t tactics the way Juilo does.

It's up to you. You can be a Follower or a Me Too or you can break some new ground and allow the market to decide who is the best vendor with the best product. I know my money will never go into the pockets of ppl like Julio Don.

[socalgn]

Dude, you gotta STOP HATING! The way you're beating your gums, you sound like you have a bad case of Victimitis.

I checked out your site, and I applaud you for your innovative efforts at producing HP- guess what? There's more than one way to skin a cat, and more than one way to make HP.

SMC and alkycontrol offer similar products, yet I don't see then bashing on each other in any forum where the question is "Which is better- SMC or Razor?" They both take the high road, and realize that there's room for both of them to grow and prosper.

Now, regarding the specifics of this thread: you threw down an opinion, and Razor rebutted. Guess what? Opinions are OK to have, share, and disagree with. To me, you take it as a personal affront, and go on the attack.
Razor offered proof of his claims, and you haven't- just more personal attacks.
A 'home brewed' challenge was coming together- Razor is willing to participate, you're not.

Better read your avatar. I get annoyed at people who beat their gums via the anonimity of the Internet. You didn't break any new ground- you adopted a system that's been around for a LONG time, and made it work in your application. Doesn't that make you guilty of the very thing that you accuse Razor of?

No, I currently don't own ANY alky kit- just wanted to let you know before you start accusing me of favoritism. I did call Razor way back when with questions about the SMC kit I used to have, and I got professional tech advice about a competitors product (dial in procedures/adjustment stuff).

[stevemon]

You don't make a bit of sense socal.
Razor belittles any and everyone who has posted that his way may not be the best way to skin this particular cat. If you want to stick up for a guy like him it's your choice. Some of us take responsibility for our actions and hold people to the same code of ethics. You're obviously not of that opinion. Too bad.

You say hating when someone points out that the other person is being unjust in the way he deals with an issue. Slamming others to divert attention from the question in point is a cheap shot and Razor does it all the time.

It is not hate for a person but it may be hate for unfairness and yes I am that way. You can't see it but that's your problem. I'll use Razors words here and tell you that maybe you should stay out of what you don't understand.

[socalgn]

Fair enough- I retract my comments about 'you' hating, and apologise.

Now, I do understand; I went 11.40 with my old SMC NON progressive kit, so I understand the benefits of alky, no matter the delivery system. The collective knowledge base of these boards have helped us all to go from the mid 12s to unthought of speeds and times from that lil ol' v-6. Not recognizing the march of technical and mechanical progress is as insane as holding up a KB hi-lo chip as the best chip on the market. That was then, this is now.

In re-reading the thread, I see a progression from opinions offered, to throwdown. I see no belittling of you from Razor- I see someone passionate about his success offering to prove what he says. I see no shady ethics, nor do I see any obvious slamming. You, also, are passionate about your beliefs- if yo believe as strongly as you do, then step up and meet the challenge! Worst case- you could have fun with it!

Perception is reality to most folks- while you perceive Razor is attacking you, I just don't see it.

And no, Razor doesn't know me from adam- hell, we're on opposite sides of the continent!

[stevemon]

I am not the one that has to prove something. It falls on the person who wants you to send him your $500. He should show you it's worth the $ but then if you're a Me Too then let's forget that. Might as well listen to the piper and drink the Kool ade
while you're at it.

The point is, dollar for dollar Alky Control will not give you as much horsepower as other options such as Cooling Mist, DIY, etc.

[socalgn]

Originally Posted by stevemon

I am not the one that has to prove something. It falls on the person who wants you to send him your $500. He should show you it's worth the $ but then if you're a Me Too then let's forget that. Might as well listen to the piper and drink the Kool ade
while you're at it.

The point is, dollar for dollar Alky Control will not give you as much horsepower as other options such as Cooling Mist, DIY, etc.

Sure you are- since you made a demonstrative statement regarding the pros and cons of a particular product, YOU are the one who has to back it up with irrefutable fact- it's called "debate", or "the scientific method".

In the legal world, not having facts to support your claims against a product could open you up for a lawsuit or 2- which would be bad!

Whether or not alky control is a better or worse 'deal', dollar for dollar, remains to be seen, as you just can't or won't stand tall and back your claim.

I listen to anybody that is willing to share information on these cars- cause I don't know it all. If that's following the piper, then so be it. I'm not arrogant enough to even remotely believe that I have all the knowledge on these cars- are you?


And, I happen to like Kool-Aid- I just don't let Jim Jones or any of his loons mix it for me.