New chip for alky?

chrisgarrett46 · 09-01-2004, 03:24 PM

I have alky, red's 93 and 42#injectors. Of course the alky was added after the chip was burned. With no other changes, will a new chip which includes alky info improve performance?

NOCOOLER · 09-01-2004, 04:11 PM

You can probably get away with a few more degree's of timing with alky. Lots of chip burners offer a "alky" chip - others offer it as 98-100 octane chips.

HTH
Jeremy

chrisgarrett46 · 09-01-2004, 05:33 PM

I'm a little confused by this whole timing thing. Am I correct in assuming that I can only affect timing with a tranlator plus or some other aftermarket device? Chris

stevemon · 09-01-2004, 05:49 PM

You can use a higher timing chip or use the Translator Plus. If you have the stock turbo, I'd suggest raising timing to get the most out of the alky mod. If you have a larger turbo, raising the boost a pound or two higher would be more effective IMO.

NOCOOLER · 09-01-2004, 05:50 PM

The chip has control of the timing - unless a external device; such as a translator plus over-rides/changes the signal.

Jeremy

Edit: Steve beat me to it.

If you have a Translator Plus - why aren't you running an Extender. That's the whole point - 512gr/s.

salvageV6 · 09-01-2004, 05:52 PM

Timing can be changed in a chip, no need for a translator just yet.

Get a TurboTweak alky. chip which usually has 23* timing in 1st and 2nd gear and 21* timing in 3rd and 4th gears.

You will see an improvement, or Eric will give you your money back.

maybe.... ;)

chrisgarrett46 · 09-01-2004, 06:14 PM

If I upgrade the chip to allow for alky and increased timing and later I upgrade the turbo will I need another chip due to the turbo change? I'm still making decesions, but I want to upgrade in some logical fashion.

Razor · 09-02-2004, 12:02 AM

Chris,
I'm a dealer for Eric. Yes there is an improvement. With the 009's.. He makes a mean chip. Drop me an email and i'll forward you the new 5.3 manual for the adjustable chip. You can change 1/2 timing, 3/4 timing, and WOT BLM lock from 118-140.. all without needing a reburn.

Your not happy, we'll get it reburned N/C.. still not happy after that.. I'll give you your money back.

ahh crap.. what have I done now

chrisgarrett46 · 09-02-2004, 02:30 PM

Can someone please explain the concept of advancing the timing? Why do I want to advance my timing with alky?

Mick · 09-03-2004, 10:33 AM

I'll give it a small shot...back to basics (internal combustion engines). If the ignition timing (even on a stock engine) is advanced (to a certain degree), slightly more power is made because the air/fuel mixture is given time to fully combust (and to allow the plug spark to travel). When the air/fuel mixture completes combustion, there is enough power created to slam the piston downward. If an improper grade of fuel is used combined with an over-advanced timing setting, the effects of detonation can cause damage. Detonation is when the air/fuel mixture combusts too early or too quickly during the compression stroke. The flame front collides with the upward-stroking piston. Pressure in the cylinder becomes increasingly high. Temperature rises to dangerous levels. This can result in engine damage. Enter alky...cooling the "charge air" reduces temps which helps to ward off detonation. There is a limit to the "advance/power" process, but the idea is to find the "edge" without going over. If you can accomplish this in a "progressive" manner (like razor's system), all the better.

Mick · 09-03-2004, 10:51 AM

I'll give it a small shot...back to basics (internal combustion engines). If the ignition timing (even on a stock engine) is advanced (to a certain degree), slightly more power is made because the air/fuel mixture is given time to fully combust (and to allow the plug spark to travel). When the air/fuel mixture completes combustion, there is enough power created to slam the piston downward. If an improper grade of fuel is used combined with an over-advanced timing setting, the effects of detonation can cause damage. Detonation is when the air/fuel mixture combusts too early or too quickly during the compression stroke. The flame front collides with the upward-stroking piston. Pressure in the cylinder becomes increasingly high. Temperature rises to dangerous levels. This can result in engine damage. Enter alky...cooling the "charge air" reduces temps which helps to ward off detonation. There is a limit to the "advance/power" process, but the idea is to find the "edge" without going over. If you can accomplish this in a "progressive" manner (like razor's system), all the better.

chrisgarrett46 · 09-03-2004, 11:15 AM

Thanks, I'm beginning to see the light.

Mick · 09-03-2004, 11:21 AM

Also.....if you haven't done it, read/study this entire page

HTH

chrisgarrett46 · 09-03-2004, 12:03 PM

Thanks again Mick.

Razor · 09-04-2004, 08:50 AM

Chris ya get my email, think your chip/injectors are improperly matched. See a 009 chip has a way different curve than a 40 lb red stripe. The red stripe is closer to a stock injector curve. hence why they say 009's are typically rich at the bottom and lean at the top.. due to the way the injector works. And requires a different calibration.

Just becuase its off 2lbs per hour.. wont work. You could probably get a chip for blue tops aka 36lbs to work with the red stripes better just by reducing FP. Still not rite, but at least the linearity will be way closer.

HTH

09-01-2004, 03:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
chrisgarrett46 Out, damned knock Join Date: May 2004 Location: Highland Park, ILLinois Posts: 5,603	New chip for alky? I have alky, red's 93 and 42#injectors. Of course the alky was added after the chip was burned. With no other changes, will a new chip which includes alky info improve performance? __________________ Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. 2008 rebuild, Comp roller cam, Cat stroker, RJC gridle, CPT66BB, PTE Stock Location IC, Champion iron, T&D roller rockers, 60# Mototron injectors w/Turbotweak chip, Monroe-ported throttlebody, RJC Power Plate, Jimmy-built trans w/Precision Vigilante converter, ATR SS dual exhaust, ATR rear sway, BMR upper and lower control arms, Edelbrock Performance shocks, Razor alky, Tinman cold air intake, MT street radials. Oh, and Russ Merritt spark plug wires. Last edited by chrisgarrett46 : 09-01-2004 at 03:32 PM.

09-01-2004, 04:11 PM	#2 (permalink)
NOCOOLER Growing my Mullet! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: St. Louis MI Posts: 2,525	You can probably get away with a few more degree's of timing with alky. Lots of chip burners offer a "alky" chip - others offer it as 98-100 octane chips. HTH Jeremy __________________ - Jeremy 86 T-type - sold......probably was the quickest/fastest peg-leg car. Y2K Pontiac Firebird Formula M6 - Headers/ORY/Flowmaster Cat Back - FAST 78/78 K/N filter 13.0@109.25 w/2.0 60' on street tires 03 GMC Sierra RCSB 4x4 5.3 CAI - Spal Controlled LS1 EFANS - GMPP Exhaust. Exhaust Clip

09-01-2004, 05:33 PM	#3 (permalink)
chrisgarrett46 Out, damned knock Join Date: May 2004 Location: Highland Park, ILLinois Posts: 5,603	I'm a little confused by this whole timing thing. Am I correct in assuming that I can only affect timing with a tranlator plus or some other aftermarket device? Chris __________________ Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. 2008 rebuild, Comp roller cam, Cat stroker, RJC gridle, CPT66BB, PTE Stock Location IC, Champion iron, T&D roller rockers, 60# Mototron injectors w/Turbotweak chip, Monroe-ported throttlebody, RJC Power Plate, Jimmy-built trans w/Precision Vigilante converter, ATR SS dual exhaust, ATR rear sway, BMR upper and lower control arms, Edelbrock Performance shocks, Razor alky, Tinman cold air intake, MT street radials. Oh, and Russ Merritt spark plug wires.

09-01-2004, 05:49 PM	#4 (permalink)
stevemon Free Information Kits Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Jamaica Pass, Ok Posts: 3,906	You can use a higher timing chip or use the Translator Plus. If you have the stock turbo, I'd suggest raising timing to get the most out of the alky mod. If you have a larger turbo, raising the boost a pound or two higher would be more effective IMO. __________________ stevemonroe@cox.net 1986 GN, 11.80 @ 114, stock turbo. Now in my God sons care. 1989 TTA #10, Sold 1967 Buick Spl. GS Clone, Sold 1957 Buick Special 2nd new Buick in the family (sold) 1950 Special. Families 1st new Buick. Got the Bling Grill 2006 Sissy Motorscooter DIY Alcohol Injection 62 mm Throttle Bodys Liberalism faltered when it turned out it could not cope with truth. D. Moynihan Some in my party threaten to send a message that they don't know a just war when they see it, and more broadly that they're not prepared to use our military strength to protect our security and the cause of freedom. Joe Lieberman Somehow liberals have been unable to acquire from life what conservatives seem to be endowed with at birth: namely, a healthy skepticism of the powers of government agencies to do good. Daniel Moynihan When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary. T. Paine

09-01-2004, 05:50 PM	#5 (permalink)
NOCOOLER Growing my Mullet! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: St. Louis MI Posts: 2,525	The chip has control of the timing - unless a external device; such as a translator plus over-rides/changes the signal. Jeremy Edit: Steve beat me to it. If you have a Translator Plus - why aren't you running an Extender. That's the whole point - 512gr/s. __________________ - Jeremy 86 T-type - sold......probably was the quickest/fastest peg-leg car. Y2K Pontiac Firebird Formula M6 - Headers/ORY/Flowmaster Cat Back - FAST 78/78 K/N filter 13.0@109.25 w/2.0 60' on street tires 03 GMC Sierra RCSB 4x4 5.3 CAI - Spal Controlled LS1 EFANS - GMPP Exhaust. Exhaust Clip

09-01-2004, 05:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
salvageV6 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 6,431	Timing can be changed in a chip, no need for a translator just yet. Get a TurboTweak alky. chip which usually has 23* timing in 1st and 2nd gear and 21* timing in 3rd and 4th gears. You will see an improvement, or Eric will give you your money back. maybe.... ;)

09-01-2004, 06:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
chrisgarrett46 Out, damned knock Join Date: May 2004 Location: Highland Park, ILLinois Posts: 5,603	If I upgrade the chip to allow for alky and increased timing and later I upgrade the turbo will I need another chip due to the turbo change? I'm still making decesions, but I want to upgrade in some logical fashion. __________________ Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. 2008 rebuild, Comp roller cam, Cat stroker, RJC gridle, CPT66BB, PTE Stock Location IC, Champion iron, T&D roller rockers, 60# Mototron injectors w/Turbotweak chip, Monroe-ported throttlebody, RJC Power Plate, Jimmy-built trans w/Precision Vigilante converter, ATR SS dual exhaust, ATR rear sway, BMR upper and lower control arms, Edelbrock Performance shocks, Razor alky, Tinman cold air intake, MT street radials. Oh, and Russ Merritt spark plug wires.

09-02-2004, 12:02 AM	#8 (permalink)
Razor Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 883	Chris, I'm a dealer for Eric. Yes there is an improvement. With the 009's.. He makes a mean chip. Drop me an email and i'll forward you the new 5.3 manual for the adjustable chip. You can change 1/2 timing, 3/4 timing, and WOT BLM lock from 118-140.. all without needing a reburn. Your not happy, we'll get it reburned N/C.. still not happy after that.. I'll give you your money back. ahh crap.. what have I done now

09-02-2004, 02:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
chrisgarrett46 Out, damned knock Join Date: May 2004 Location: Highland Park, ILLinois Posts: 5,603	Can someone please explain the concept of advancing the timing? Why do I want to advance my timing with alky? __________________ Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. 2008 rebuild, Comp roller cam, Cat stroker, RJC gridle, CPT66BB, PTE Stock Location IC, Champion iron, T&D roller rockers, 60# Mototron injectors w/Turbotweak chip, Monroe-ported throttlebody, RJC Power Plate, Jimmy-built trans w/Precision Vigilante converter, ATR SS dual exhaust, ATR rear sway, BMR upper and lower control arms, Edelbrock Performance shocks, Razor alky, Tinman cold air intake, MT street radials. Oh, and Russ Merritt spark plug wires.

09-03-2004, 10:33 AM	#10 (permalink)
Mick Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 86	I'll give it a small shot...back to basics (internal combustion engines). If the ignition timing (even on a stock engine) is advanced (to a certain degree), slightly more power is made because the air/fuel mixture is given time to fully combust (and to allow the plug spark to travel). When the air/fuel mixture completes combustion, there is enough power created to slam the piston downward. If an improper grade of fuel is used combined with an over-advanced timing setting, the effects of detonation can cause damage. Detonation is when the air/fuel mixture combusts too early or too quickly during the compression stroke. The flame front collides with the upward-stroking piston. Pressure in the cylinder becomes increasingly high. Temperature rises to dangerous levels. This can result in engine damage. Enter alky...cooling the "charge air" reduces temps which helps to ward off detonation. There is a limit to the "advance/power" process, but the idea is to find the "edge" without going over. If you can accomplish this in a "progressive" manner (like razor's system), all the better. __________________ Mickey 1987 GN

09-03-2004, 10:51 AM	#11 (permalink)
Mick Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 86	I'll give it a small shot...back to basics (internal combustion engines). If the ignition timing (even on a stock engine) is advanced (to a certain degree), slightly more power is made because the air/fuel mixture is given time to fully combust (and to allow the plug spark to travel). When the air/fuel mixture completes combustion, there is enough power created to slam the piston downward. If an improper grade of fuel is used combined with an over-advanced timing setting, the effects of detonation can cause damage. Detonation is when the air/fuel mixture combusts too early or too quickly during the compression stroke. The flame front collides with the upward-stroking piston. Pressure in the cylinder becomes increasingly high. Temperature rises to dangerous levels. This can result in engine damage. Enter alky...cooling the "charge air" reduces temps which helps to ward off detonation. There is a limit to the "advance/power" process, but the idea is to find the "edge" without going over. If you can accomplish this in a "progressive" manner (like razor's system), all the better. __________________ Mickey 1987 GN

09-03-2004, 11:15 AM	#12 (permalink)
chrisgarrett46 Out, damned knock Join Date: May 2004 Location: Highland Park, ILLinois Posts: 5,603	Thanks, I'm beginning to see the light. __________________ Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. 2008 rebuild, Comp roller cam, Cat stroker, RJC gridle, CPT66BB, PTE Stock Location IC, Champion iron, T&D roller rockers, 60# Mototron injectors w/Turbotweak chip, Monroe-ported throttlebody, RJC Power Plate, Jimmy-built trans w/Precision Vigilante converter, ATR SS dual exhaust, ATR rear sway, BMR upper and lower control arms, Edelbrock Performance shocks, Razor alky, Tinman cold air intake, MT street radials. Oh, and Russ Merritt spark plug wires.

09-03-2004, 11:21 AM	#13 (permalink)
Mick Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 86	Also.....if you haven't done it, read/study this entire page HTH __________________ Mickey 1987 GN

09-03-2004, 12:03 PM	#14 (permalink)
chrisgarrett46 Out, damned knock Join Date: May 2004 Location: Highland Park, ILLinois Posts: 5,603	Thanks again Mick. __________________ Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. 2008 rebuild, Comp roller cam, Cat stroker, RJC gridle, CPT66BB, PTE Stock Location IC, Champion iron, T&D roller rockers, 60# Mototron injectors w/Turbotweak chip, Monroe-ported throttlebody, RJC Power Plate, Jimmy-built trans w/Precision Vigilante converter, ATR SS dual exhaust, ATR rear sway, BMR upper and lower control arms, Edelbrock Performance shocks, Razor alky, Tinman cold air intake, MT street radials. Oh, and Russ Merritt spark plug wires.

09-04-2004, 08:50 AM	#15 (permalink)
Razor Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 883	Chris ya get my email, think your chip/injectors are improperly matched. See a 009 chip has a way different curve than a 40 lb red stripe. The red stripe is closer to a stock injector curve. hence why they say 009's are typically rich at the bottom and lean at the top.. due to the way the injector works. And requires a different calibration. Just becuase its off 2lbs per hour.. wont work. You could probably get a chip for blue tops aka 36lbs to work with the red stripes better just by reducing FP. Still not rite, but at least the linearity will be way closer. HTH

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