Questions about alcohol injection...

[Beast_231]

I am looking into buying a alky kit very soon and I had some questions.

My first one is I have heard from some people that alcohol injection is very hard on a motor. They've mentioned that I can be looking to rebuild my motor as it tends to wear them out faster. Now most of them are older hot rodders, not knowing too much about Turbo Buicks. One is a 32 year ASE Master Tech and asks me why I would want to do that to a perfectly fine running motor. On the contrary though I have heard many people have been running kits for a long time and never had a problem with them and the motors run better than ever with the alky. Who am I to believe? Is there something special about our motors that makes them immune to alcohol, or is it that it really isnt that harmful, atleast not what it used to be.

My next question is even though I can run ungodly amounts of boost on the street, when I go to the track and want a little "extra" something, could I put put a little race gas in the tank to get just that little bit more boost? Or just go straight race gas and turn off the alky?

[salvageV6]

ANY increase in HP and performance will wear a motor out faster.

Just how much faster remains to be seen and in MHO is not even an issue with the boost and power allowed to be run with alky. kits on a stock block motor with a mild combo.

Sounds like the ASE guy likes stock factory running motors of any kind, no problems with that but won't do YOU any good performance wise. ;)

Remember to tell them you are injecting it not running the motor on it.

Alky. can help to prevent detonation and increase power and performance if you have scan tools and some common sense as well as a good alky. chip or good street chip.

Can also clean components and reduce carbon buildup. Speaking from denatured use myself, methanol is a bit more corrosive in nature in MHO.

If you plan on running race gas at the track you will need to learn how to tune the car for both gas types and alky. Becoming a good tuner is a good thing but requires more time and energy to get it right with each change.

Not worth it the first time with the alky. just get it running good and try it at the track.

If you get addicted to the high boost you can always get a real race chip and set the car up to run strictly race gas.

100 octane unleaded is also helpful and available at most tracks and won't mess up your sensors while also helping to allow more boost and timing with or without alky.

[Grumpy]

when these cars first came out in 86 "master mechanics " said that chips would blow up your motors .... when your time is up its up .... detonation is the #1 killer ... I have alky on a few high milage cars .... NO problems !!!

[The Radius Kid]

I have read where they developed special oils for racing with alcohol,however since we don't run alky full time[only use it to augment our pump gas at high boost],we should be fine as Dan has noted.

[Razor]

Running high boost alky or not is detrimental to the motor. If you want 300,000 miles never go WOT. Look the best race engines in the country run for 500 miles.. some last even less.

High boost will accellerate tranny wear, engine wear, suspension, tires, etc. But hey thats why we spend time at WOT to get our adrenaline fix.

As far as alky being detrimental to the engine internals when sprayed as a detonation control.. no way. Methanol actually burns "CLEAN" and leaves no "odor" unlike denatured. But is harsh on pumps that are not compatible with it.

If you get your car properly tuned on alcohol, you wont want to change that state and refigure it out. Remember race gas means change chip, change gas, change fuel pressure, change boost.. then have the car run perfect.. rite

If your tuned on the edge, and want additional insurance.. you can run higher octane fuel + alky with no adverse effects. My buddy Richie recently ran on C16 and was getting 1-3 degrees KR.. switched the alky kit on.. flat line zero KR. He actually picked up a tenth from an 11.07 at 124 to a 10.97 at 126..

HTH

Hey salvageV6.. when you taking the car to the track... its got cobwebs in the downpipe.

[KILRV6]

As has been said, anything that increases power will take its toll over time. You need to decide what your goals are for your car then weigh out the risks. I began running AI a few years ago. I made my own kit with the help of some other guys that had been running it for years. I made my system fully removable in case I decide not to stick with it. I ran it on just water the first year just to make sure it worked and did not leak. Since then I now run 50/50 water and denatured alcohol and I have NO plans on removing it! I run 20-22psi on the street all the time on 93 octane pump gas and a Thrasher 108 chip. My car has never run better! I have yet to get the track with AI but plan on going soon--just ordered a new helmet as my old one no longer met track rules. Hopefully I will be able to report a very low 12 high 11 time but I am more intersted in improving my past best 111+MPH. I am also planning a trip to a chassis dyno as I found one very close to me that I did not even know existed!!!

In a nut shell.................I love AI!!!

See ya!

[salvageV6]

Cars been to the track already, where you been?

Out changing headgaskets..... again...

Car number 2 is being worked on now.

SalvageV6 is retired from racing.

Also driven daily no cobwebs on either car.

[Razor]

Headgaskets happen from leaning on it hard while racing. If you dont push..you never can find the limits. Hell I ran 11.80 a week ago with a 2.0 60 foot at 119. And an 11.7 three weeks ago all on drag radials.

So whats the point? Becuase you dont push your car hard it doesnt blow a HG? Mine didnt either when it ran in the 12's.



Its the age old arguement from someone that doesnt race their car

Retirement will do you good.

[salvageV6]

Already in the 11's with a much heavier and less Aero car at a much higher altitude. ;)

That's the retirement reason, still running within 1 psi. on the street of the track psi.

Didn't spend a ton of $$$ on heads and cams. either.

Guess you gotta do something to go fast or at least seem to.

Remember blowing up ain't racing. LOL

[Razor]

So I went 11.622 at 118.71 on a stock IC, stock TB, stock intake, stock heads, stock cam, stock chain, 100%stock suspension, spare tire, sway bars, 51 turbo, 12 inch converter, on pump+alky. Whats your point?

Point is you dont put up track results to follow your keyboard... 11's means 11.999 with a ball bearing turbo..hahahaha



Heavy car, my tta is at 3800lbs with me in it.

Must of been a lot of non-racers at BG this year

Racing is racing.. blowing up is a cost of doing racing.

As is winning .. something I have way more than you do.. And if I have to blow up the motor to spank someone like you .. no problem. Thats why there are plenty of machine shops and parts to build another one

Not afraid to race.. not afraid to break..

Take that to the bank.

And smoke it

[Grumpy]

if ya dont brake parts your not pushin enuff

[salvageV6]

You pushing your street cars this much.

Youse guys must be rich. ;)

Sorry to hear you guys have to blow up so much and buy those heads and cams. at $$$ to get in the 11's.

Guess that's progressive thinking.


Guess you only picked up .2 with the heads and cams. eh?

Sorry to hear you can't tune very well.

Maybe you need another stage on the alky. kit, solenoid and another nozzle should get you some better results.

[Grumpy]

Originally posted by salvageV6
You pushing your street cars this much.

Youse guys must be rich. ;)

pushing ???? hellll ya what is the car for ???? car show's?? we beat the piss outta our cars BUT mine are mostly stocker's ...stock motor with a 44 turbo , V4 , blue tops < AC shift kit (stock D5s) an good ol drag radials ... mid 11's an 2 or 3 head gaskets totally for all the years of racing , broke a crank on Melissa's Limited T with 218k on it an it had 4-5 racin seasons .. Melissa just broke her mother's turbo "T" with 155k on it and a lot of 11 sec runs ... Dammm even her WE4 has 133k on it and a million runs ... the only thing we did do was burn clutches in the trannys ...dont have to be rich to run our cars hmmmm prob to easy for us because we got in the 11's with a tweaked stock TTA in 1990 WE DRIVE OURS TO DEATH !!! thats why GM built them

[stevemon]

9 1/2 year GN owner and a 4 1/2 year TTA owner. Never hurt my tranny or headgaskets running low 12s-high 11s in the GN. Several hunderd runs at that. ( Still like that stock turbo )
I HAVE busted two torque converters though but I race it like I stole it.

First 11 & First Wheel Up Launch. Nov, 1997

[Razor]

Yup picked up 6 mph in the 1/8 went from 92 to running 98.4.. on a bone stock IC.

Guys dont pay attention to salvagev6.. he doesnt race his car. Probably hasnt been to the track in months..let alone race his princess... soon he'll start trailering the Queen for everyone too see..notice no times in his sig.. notice no post where he's raced his car. Just some ol guy pissing about money it costs to race a car.. yet giving tons of advice on what works..do as I say not as I do

I have over 600 passes on the stock head gaskets at a real race track..

I have sitting in the garaje 3 std/std cranks, 3 109 blocks, 3 sets of rods, 2 extra turbo's, 2 converters... whats the big deal...i've killed tranny's.. killed a rear.. soon i'll kill the motor.. whoopeedoo.. I'd hate to see Grumpy's arsenal...

Ohh i'm sorry I spend money on parts.. .. as soon as I drive over my crank..another motor will be dropped in and i'll start all over again. Big deal ;)

Quote"Youse guys must be rich." If we were rich, we'd be on the Viper board.