alky? what kind - Page 2

Steve Wood · 04-13-2004, 10:36 AM

http://www.afdc.nrel.gov/pdfs/fueltable.pdf

http://www.team.net/sol/tech/octane_b.html

SY told me about the ricer part.....Goat ranching has me busy at the moment.

Razor · 04-13-2004, 12:47 PM

I'll toss this bone in

The reason for using denatured alcohol in the SMC kit is due to the style of pump being used. Its a steel roller pump and methanol will tear up the rollers over time, unlike denatured which is a little less corrossive.

I like methanol becuase its cheaper(2.50 a gallon), and allows greater performance potential(yes it does). The lube is only pump specific. Also becuase of the steel roller pump..no water with the alky.

Steve.. some of us actually play with alky a little different. My car runs 70-72% INJ DC with 50's in the lower 11's.. the rest of the fueling comes from the huge volume of alcohol being sprayed in.

Clamp down on inj, increase your alky flow through the motor, you get cooling, you get greater kr protection, you get higher octane.. you get power

Grumpy · 04-13-2004, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Razor
I'll toss this bone in

The reason for using denatured alcohol in the SMC kit is due to the style of pump being used. Its a steel roller pump and methanol will tear up the rollers over time, unlike denatured which is a little less corrossive.

I like methanol becuase its cheaper(2.50 a gallon), and allows greater performance potential(yes it does). The lube is only pump specific. Also becuase of the steel roller pump..no water with the alky.

Steve.. some of us actually play with alky a little different. My car runs 70-72% INJ DC with 50's in the lower 11's.. the rest of the fueling comes from the huge volume of alcohol being sprayed in.

Clamp down on inj, increase your alky flow through the motor, you get cooling, you get greater kr protection, you get higher octane.. you get power

bla bla bla bla !!!!!

ummmm the pump Julio uses is huge !!!! nice kit

Steve Wood · 04-13-2004, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Razor
I'll toss this bone in

The reason for using denatured alcohol in the SMC kit is due to the style of pump being used. Its a steel roller pump and methanol will tear up the rollers over time, unlike denatured which is a little less corrossive.

I like methanol becuase its cheaper(2.50 a gallon), and allows greater performance potential(yes it does). The lube is only pump specific. Also becuase of the steel roller pump..no water with the alky.

Steve.. some of us actually play with alky a little different. My car runs 70-72% INJ DC with 50's in the lower 11's.. the rest of the fueling comes from the huge volume of alcohol being sprayed in.

Clamp down on inj, increase your alky flow through the motor, you get cooling, you get greater kr protection, you get higher octane.. you get power

Actually, denatured is much less corrosive whether it is in a pump or any other part of the fuel system.

As methanol/ethanol/etc. are not very high in octane as compared to 93, the octane enhancement is negligible in the greater scheme of things. By turning the manifold into a wet manifold, one runs thre risk of messing up the distribution, but, that is probably immaterial for most of us. Flooding a lot of alky may allow one to run more boost, but, one may find that one is making less power due to the btu content compared to gasoline.

Methanol has attractive attributes such as a better latent heat number and it's price.

Whether it's better to run more gas and less alky or vice versa may be debatable and only trial and error runs will determine that for each engine combination.

As I run 75s, I cannot compare what my DC is with yours, but your numbers seem reasonable to me.

Too bad we don't live closer to each other so we could compare techniques side by side....

Razor · 04-14-2004, 08:36 AM

Well maybe some day when your done goat ranching

If a top alky dragster can run into the 5's with the stuff.. there is power to be had.

The question of the effectiveness of mixing the alky with fuel.. man i'm by no means no rocket scientist. Tho I have seen better track numbers dropping fuel and adding additional alky. Vs adding fuel and dropping alky. Especially as far as KR is concerned. Every car is different, every motor based on heads, turbo, cam, etc is different.. and the requirements are way different.

Heres a little tidbit, when my own car was stock heads and cam, I couldnt but push 110-120 PSI pressure without it surging. After doing heads and cam, i've added 30 percent more pressure through the system without surging. The better the motor breathes.. the more volume that can be drilled into the motor. You just have to find what makes the most power for your own combination. There is no set rule book in place. Guess we could debate this stuff like torquing head bolts on a GN motor.. the debate will live forever.

Ohh.. if you look at my first paragraph, the use of a steel roller pump is why a less corrossive alcohol is to be used. Hence why methanol will tear it up.

Ohh.. Grumpy..

Steve Wood · 04-14-2004, 09:44 AM

An alky dragster is apples and oranges. It is using it directly as fuel in sufficient quantity to make up for the heat content plus they increase the c.r. a lot to get the power out. That is not analagous to our usage.

I agree with the rest, but, remind everyone that this thread was about what Nicker can safely use in what has been reported to be an SMC kit,

If he wants to run methanol, then he should sell the kit he bought and buy one of yours or build his own. As his combination is very stock, unlike yours, or mine, I doubt he will find much.

My son's is much closer to Nickers as it is basically stock with a TE44 and he has gone 11.7 on denatured. Hank Terry went 11.4 as I recall with little more. I think Nicker has some room to grow...and he probably is not even reading this thread anyway.

I have some goats that are pretty fast too....must be the methane ejection?

Razor · 04-14-2004, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve Wood

I have some goats that are pretty fast too....must be the methane ejection?

Speaking of Fast Goats..

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ido...&.dnm=e25a.jpg

It also has Nawzzz

Steve Wood · 04-14-2004, 12:33 PM

Damn...must be a master plumber!

Nicker · 04-14-2004, 02:14 PM

O im reading razor, a little confused yeah, stock block with a 49, i guess denaturalized is fine for me, i just wanted to fool around with other *ols but ill stick to what your son did, he seems to be around where i am. But thanks for the intentisive, indepth info on everything!

Steve Wood · 04-14-2004, 11:42 PM

Sell the kit you bought, and buy one of Razor's

Nicker · 04-14-2004, 11:50 PM

thats how razor is so smart, he has his own kit!!!

i knew that, when funds incresase prob would want to get it, but rite now im living paycheck to paycheck

Razor · 04-15-2004, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve Wood
Damn...must be a master plumber!

Scary huh... not mine, one of my customers. It has alky, NOS, and is a drawthrough carb'd setup on a Pontiac motor.. 69 GTO convertible to boot

I can only imagine.. conversation starts like this.. my car develops this little miss at 3200 rpms..

Ya open the hood and whalla

04-13-2004, 10:36 AM	#16 (permalink)
Steve Wood An American American Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: East of Eden, Texas Posts: 37,158	http://www.afdc.nrel.gov/pdfs/fueltable.pdf http://www.team.net/sol/tech/octane_b.html SY told me about the ricer part.....Goat ranching has me busy at the moment. __________________ ------------------ 'A government that is big enough to give you everything you want, is also big enough to take away everything you have.' - Thomas Jefferson I think one should worry more when people are lining up to get out of a country rather than into it. If they're sneaking in, we must be doing something right. The Chronicles of Zap, from the early 21st century www.vortexbuicks-etc.com Last edited by Steve Wood : 04-13-2004 at 10:39 AM.

04-14-2004, 12:33 PM	#23 (permalink)
Steve Wood An American American Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: East of Eden, Texas Posts: 37,158	Damn...must be a master plumber! __________________ ------------------ 'A government that is big enough to give you everything you want, is also big enough to take away everything you have.' - Thomas Jefferson I think one should worry more when people are lining up to get out of a country rather than into it. If they're sneaking in, we must be doing something right. The Chronicles of Zap, from the early 21st century www.vortexbuicks-etc.com

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04-13-2004, 12:47 PM	#17 (permalink)
Razor Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 883	I'll toss this bone in The reason for using denatured alcohol in the SMC kit is due to the style of pump being used. Its a steel roller pump and methanol will tear up the rollers over time, unlike denatured which is a little less corrossive. I like methanol becuase its cheaper(2.50 a gallon), and allows greater performance potential(yes it does). The lube is only pump specific. Also becuase of the steel roller pump..no water with the alky. Steve.. some of us actually play with alky a little different. My car runs 70-72% INJ DC with 50's in the lower 11's.. the rest of the fueling comes from the huge volume of alcohol being sprayed in. Clamp down on inj, increase your alky flow through the motor, you get cooling, you get greater kr protection, you get higher octane.. you get power

04-14-2004, 08:36 AM	#20 (permalink)
Razor Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 883	Well maybe some day when your done goat ranching If a top alky dragster can run into the 5's with the stuff.. there is power to be had. The question of the effectiveness of mixing the alky with fuel.. man i'm by no means no rocket scientist. Tho I have seen better track numbers dropping fuel and adding additional alky. Vs adding fuel and dropping alky. Especially as far as KR is concerned. Every car is different, every motor based on heads, turbo, cam, etc is different.. and the requirements are way different. Heres a little tidbit, when my own car was stock heads and cam, I couldnt but push 110-120 PSI pressure without it surging. After doing heads and cam, i've added 30 percent more pressure through the system without surging. The better the motor breathes.. the more volume that can be drilled into the motor. You just have to find what makes the most power for your own combination. There is no set rule book in place. Guess we could debate this stuff like torquing head bolts on a GN motor.. the debate will live forever. Ohh.. if you look at my first paragraph, the use of a steel roller pump is why a less corrossive alcohol is to be used. Hence why methanol will tear it up. Ohh.. Grumpy..

04-14-2004, 09:44 AM	#21 (permalink)
Steve Wood An American American Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: East of Eden, Texas Posts: 37,158	An alky dragster is apples and oranges. It is using it directly as fuel in sufficient quantity to make up for the heat content plus they increase the c.r. a lot to get the power out. That is not analagous to our usage. I agree with the rest, but, remind everyone that this thread was about what Nicker can safely use in what has been reported to be an SMC kit, If he wants to run methanol, then he should sell the kit he bought and buy one of yours or build his own. As his combination is very stock, unlike yours, or mine, I doubt he will find much. My son's is much closer to Nickers as it is basically stock with a TE44 and he has gone 11.7 on denatured. Hank Terry went 11.4 as I recall with little more. I think Nicker has some room to grow...and he probably is not even reading this thread anyway. I have some goats that are pretty fast too....must be the methane ejection?

04-14-2004, 02:14 PM	#24 (permalink)
Nicker tuned + modified properly Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,154	O im reading razor, a little confused yeah, stock block with a 49, i guess denaturalized is fine for me, i just wanted to fool around with other *ols but ill stick to what your son did, he seems to be around where i am. But thanks for the intentisive, indepth info on everything!

04-14-2004, 11:42 PM	#25 (permalink)
Steve Wood An American American Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: East of Eden, Texas Posts: 37,158	Sell the kit you bought, and buy one of Razor's

04-14-2004, 11:50 PM	#26 (permalink)
Nicker tuned + modified properly Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,154	thats how razor is so smart, he has his own kit!!! i knew that, when funds incresase prob would want to get it, but rite now im living paycheck to paycheck